Delion
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Exactly and you still have to have the head for the tanks!
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Are Atlantis coils dangerous to your health? One vaper thinks so!
- Thread starter SMOKIE
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Exactly and you still have to have the head for the tanks!
When Mike and I were figuring this out....we gave it about 3 minutes of sit time followed by a few "primer sucks"......really is the dogs bollocks! Much better in that you really do not have to take anything apart to re-wick...and no more "surface of the sun" NiChrome.
Delion
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I used this one
Absolutely. I think using Japanese cotton with the stock coil is just fine....it's just like wrapping a baby. The only thing is to make sure that there is cotton between any wire and the outer shell.
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Hahaha Can you guess which one I checked? Check out the mouse...it's a cat.here is the link that smokie posted.
www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000134.htm
here is a link to amorphous silica.
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0552.html
and here is a link to hot chicks with not much clothing.
http://sneakhype.com/chicas/2013/07/32-random-hot-chicks.html
here is link to kfc's menu
http://www.kfc.com/food/chicken/
here is a link to help understanding quantum mechanics
http://www.pbs.org/transistor/science/info/quantum.html
here is a link on how to post links
http://www.echoecho.com/htmllinks01.htm
here is a link to cute cats with a sweater
http://catswearingsweaters.tumblr.com/
here is a link for the best forum in the universe.
http://www.vapingunderground.com
here is a smile
here is an empty line where other links could have gone.
here is the end of this post.
END.
Thank you for this! Favorite post of the day.
Sorry for the off topic comment, but this was awesome.
Celtic Fog
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Ok, after watching this video...what a waste of time and money....JUST USE AN RDA OR AN RBA FOR GODS SAKE....what a pain in the ass....just so you can use the newest and coolest of gadgets.....PASS.
Making things what they are not. This is why I detest molecular gastronomy...making food taste like some other food.........WHAT IS THE POINT?
tombaker
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This is what Aspire sent me 4 ½ months ago when I asked them about the BVC for the Nautilus. Since the Atlantis is also a BVC, I would expect it all to be the same.
------------------
Thank you for supporting Aspire.
We use a ceramic fiber which is placed around the heating coil during its construction, which has undergone and passed rigorous SGS certification, and is both nontoxic and heat resistant, This ceramic material is, of course, exclusively researched and developed by the Aspire Company, and is only accessible by our manufacturing company, Shenzhen Eigate Technology Co., Ltd.
We at Aspire value our customer's safety and concern, and welcome these questions to help assure you of our levels of safety and consideration. But, although we work hard to guarantee the safety of our products, we cannot guarantee the quality or indeed the safety of the many counterfeit companies who work to imitate our products and materials.
Because of this, BVC coils obtained from fake/non-authentic suppliers/manufacturers may be toxic and/or may not be able to endure the high temperatures of the original. So we urge you to please buy smart and buy safe, keep authentic and stay healthy.
------------------
Thank you for supporting Aspire.
We use a ceramic fiber which is placed around the heating coil during its construction, which has undergone and passed rigorous SGS certification, and is both nontoxic and heat resistant, This ceramic material is, of course, exclusively researched and developed by the Aspire Company, and is only accessible by our manufacturing company, Shenzhen Eigate Technology Co., Ltd.
We at Aspire value our customer's safety and concern, and welcome these questions to help assure you of our levels of safety and consideration. But, although we work hard to guarantee the safety of our products, we cannot guarantee the quality or indeed the safety of the many counterfeit companies who work to imitate our products and materials.
Because of this, BVC coils obtained from fake/non-authentic suppliers/manufacturers may be toxic and/or may not be able to endure the high temperatures of the original. So we urge you to please buy smart and buy safe, keep authentic and stay healthy.
SMOKIE
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1:47 AM (5 hours ago)
to me
Hi friend,
Thanks very much for the concern and information.
But we need to clarify that there is not shards of glass silica you mentioned in our coils material, before use the material, we did thousands of tests to confirm the safety.
But if people all think the organic cotton or Japanese cotton is 100% safe, we will change the coil material to these stuff, now we are testing the cotton material, if we confirm it is healthy, we will change as soon as possible. thanks.
to me
Hi friend,
Thanks very much for the concern and information.
But we need to clarify that there is not shards of glass silica you mentioned in our coils material, before use the material, we did thousands of tests to confirm the safety.
But if people all think the organic cotton or Japanese cotton is 100% safe, we will change the coil material to these stuff, now we are testing the cotton material, if we confirm it is healthy, we will change as soon as possible. thanks.
So no silica in the Atlantis heads. Organic cotton and ceramic paper. The article on VaporJoes Canada needs to be removed and a public apology issued to Aspire for misinformation and blatant sensationalist scaremongering.
Aspire official statement on Atlantis coils material
Aspire official statement on Atlantis coils material
Celtic Fog
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Celtic Fog
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lol, so don't fire your Atlantis to over 1832 degrees F....and you wont form crystalline silicate.
i like the OCC coils, simple and such a tiny chamber. but since joyetech released the new rebuildable part for the egrip it also has that tiny chamber and made for rebuilding so ill just go that route. but thats why i would rebuild the OCC coils, just a different vape than a standard rda/rba
So you want to subohm without building anything for a cheap price? Well, then you should expect a weak link somewhere to be found.
Wet wicks or not, the way I see people drawing on these aspires makes it laughable that one would think that none of the loose garbage in the coil heads wont loosen up and get pulled in together with the vapor.
Wet wicks or not, the way I see people drawing on these aspires makes it laughable that one would think that none of the loose garbage in the coil heads wont loosen up and get pulled in together with the vapor.
Who is drrox on that Vaporjoes Canada post? Do they have the same credentials as Dr. Dre since they aren't a doctor and deal with rocks and Chemistry? A 16 year old in the States has the same qualifications. Could that post be any more vague about the person talking about this? Finding glass particles blocks away 5 stories up proves absolutely nothing in relation to anything else. That's like saying I found ants on this one lot, and a few blocks away I found ants, and ants travel really far. So far, that these ants may be at the factory and now we are vaping ants embedded in the wicking material.
And for the claims being made this person should be ripped apart until the story is put together in a manner someone can understand. I am purely going on just reading the blog post. Maybe this was seriously condensed from the original material.
And for the claims being made this person should be ripped apart until the story is put together in a manner someone can understand. I am purely going on just reading the blog post. Maybe this was seriously condensed from the original material.
Celtic Fog
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Ill give you a a break alright....lol
I don't have this problem anyways, I drip.
But on a lighter note, learn to read. (you are the one who posted it lol)
Silica does not form until after you burn it at 1832 degrees F...maybe your mod can ramp up that fast, not sure if anyone else has a mod that can.
Celtic Fog
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If you read their description and their diagram, it says cotton on the outside, ceramic on the inside...but who knows.
What silica cake in the centre? Where did they mention silica at all?
Celtic Fog
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looking at the close ups posted here, it sure looks like the same as the ceramic photos posted, just not in strands...not to mention, mod envy is not the designer, or seller of the aspire. I think I could believe Aspire on this one.
SMOKIE
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Aspire’s Atlantis Heads, Silica Wicking, & Silicosis… What Vapers Need to Know
THE HARD COPY:In the wake of the wild success of the new subohm Aspire Atlantis tank, we’ve seen an old controversy come crashing back into the spotlight…. of course we’re talking about the concerns regarding the safety of the silica wicking material in the Atlantis heads. Recently discussed on the Mod Envy Christmas special, the Atlantis is raising concerns because of the ultra-fine silica shards present in the wicking material. Users are finding chunks of it completely missing in used heads, and there’s a legitimate question to be asked…. where is it going, and what are the health implications for users?
I’m a vaper, and a blogger…. but by no means a scientist or expert on silicosis, so I’ve enlisted the help of someone who is. Many of you already know dr_rox, or “Professor Walt” as many of us affectionately refer to him. For those who don’t, he’s one of few people that can keep a listener riveted for hours because he’s a complete wealth of information on myriad topics…. luckily for us, this is one.
I asked Walt about silicosis, the Atlantis, and silica wicking in general…. and the answers were very enlightening and sobering. We know now that tiny silica particles are loosed during the operation of the Atlantis, but what does that mean for us?
Through discussing it with Walt, I learned that Silicosis is a condition typically caused by working around ground up silica powder. Examples of exposure include either cleaning fossils with glass bead, or making glass — the fine powder can be conveyed all the way into the alveolar sacs of the lungs. Silica is silicon dioxide in it’s purest form: SiO2. Silica dust particles in those environments are angular, sharp, and very FINE. The potentially liberated silica from the aspire heads is just 2 microns in diameter and of indeterminate length. A micron is a unit of measure in the metric system equal to 1 millionth of a meter in length (about 39 millionths of an inch). The average cross-section of a human hair is 50 microns. The human eye cannot see anything smaller than 40 microns in size. So yes. we’re talking about some incredibly small particles.
Typically, all silica-wicked coil heads are assembled in such a way that there is a lot of debris, already loose, not having to wait for a dry burn to be liberated. He recommends rinsing any silica wicked clearo prior to use in order to wash away any loose particles that could become airborne during operation. He suggest that you pour the rinse water into a clear container and observe it in bright light. What you’ll see suspended in the water may shock you. “Particles that are very small, you may not even feel when inhaling them unless one embeds itself in a nerve ending in your throat and produces a ‘scratchy’ feeling, like a fine cactus needle or piece of fine wire in your finger. You know it is there, but cannot see it.” By way of comparison, Asbestos in the lungs does this – the small crystals are bladed, like little knives and puncture the sacs when you breathe, and can cause scarring of the tissue, reducing its ability to properly function. Silica fibers or dust can do the same damage as asbestos because of their shape.
We already know that the wicking material in the Atlantis and other Aspire coil heads is finely chopped silica, pressed into a cake form to fill the coil head surrounding the coil. We also know that the particles that are freed during vaping are as small as 2 microns, and that the Atlantis’ massive airflow and direct lung hit style exacerbate the problem….. but what does all that really mean? How far can that particle really travel? Well to illustrate, Walt shared this: “I once had to analyze dust that was coming off a site in NY. The concern was about uncovered dirt piles. The dirt had fine glass in it, not even as fine as 2 microns. I found the glass in filters up to 5 floors up in a building several blocks away that had been collected on filters we had to install.” That’s bigger particles than we’re talking about by a long shot….. traveling, airborne, for several blocks and 5 stories up. Can 2 micron particles in a jetstream of air we’re directly inhaling reach the far corners of our delicate lung tissue? This blogger has to conclude that there can be little doubt of it!
The next question of course, is can we rebuild the heads with safer wicking material to avoid concerns? Walt had some cautions to share about that too: “If you take a head apart that uses fiberglass or this other stuff to rebuild it safer, you may actually breathe in a lot of the stuff because particles are liberated during the handling of it. To rebuild heads and strip out the bad stuff, do it while holding it under water.” Think of it this way…. “If you have ever been in a newly constructed house that just had fiberglass insulation installed, and sun beams are coming through the windows, you’ve seen the cloud of suspended particles swirling around and remaining airborne.” When you pull apart a silica-wicked coil head, you’re creating a miniature version of the same thing, but with much lighter, smaller airborne particles.
With enough pressure brought to bear, we want to believe that Aspire will create heads that inspire confidence in vapers. Kanger’s SUBTANK uses a fully organic cotton wicked head. We’d love to see Aspire do the same. Rumor has it that a rebuildable head for the Atlantis (similar in idea to the one already included with the SUBTANK) will hit the market in January. If you are concerned, write to Aspire (links below) to demand safer wicking, and vote with your dollars. If they can’t sell the heads they are currently selling, they will have no choice but produce heads we will buy. In the meantime, what should vapers do? Is there any wicking material that we can confidently say is 100% safe?
Walt has this to say: “I am not a medical doctor. I know rocks and soils and chemistry. It is up to each (vaper) to be informed and make a choice that they can live with.” Let’s face it folks, if we wanted to eliminate any and all concerns, we would quit everything, stop driving, and move to cabins in the woods far from pollutants, to live off the land. Not many of us can seriously consider such drastic actions, so instead we look to harm reduction. Each vaper has to decide for themselves what harm reduction looks like for them.
Our sincerest thanks to “Professor Walt” for his time, expertise, and willingness to let us share this information.
THE HARD COPY:In the wake of the wild success of the new subohm Aspire Atlantis tank, we’ve seen an old controversy come crashing back into the spotlight…. of course we’re talking about the concerns regarding the safety of the silica wicking material in the Atlantis heads. Recently discussed on the Mod Envy Christmas special, the Atlantis is raising concerns because of the ultra-fine silica shards present in the wicking material. Users are finding chunks of it completely missing in used heads, and there’s a legitimate question to be asked…. where is it going, and what are the health implications for users?
I’m a vaper, and a blogger…. but by no means a scientist or expert on silicosis, so I’ve enlisted the help of someone who is. Many of you already know dr_rox, or “Professor Walt” as many of us affectionately refer to him. For those who don’t, he’s one of few people that can keep a listener riveted for hours because he’s a complete wealth of information on myriad topics…. luckily for us, this is one.
I asked Walt about silicosis, the Atlantis, and silica wicking in general…. and the answers were very enlightening and sobering. We know now that tiny silica particles are loosed during the operation of the Atlantis, but what does that mean for us?
Through discussing it with Walt, I learned that Silicosis is a condition typically caused by working around ground up silica powder. Examples of exposure include either cleaning fossils with glass bead, or making glass — the fine powder can be conveyed all the way into the alveolar sacs of the lungs. Silica is silicon dioxide in it’s purest form: SiO2. Silica dust particles in those environments are angular, sharp, and very FINE. The potentially liberated silica from the aspire heads is just 2 microns in diameter and of indeterminate length. A micron is a unit of measure in the metric system equal to 1 millionth of a meter in length (about 39 millionths of an inch). The average cross-section of a human hair is 50 microns. The human eye cannot see anything smaller than 40 microns in size. So yes. we’re talking about some incredibly small particles.
Typically, all silica-wicked coil heads are assembled in such a way that there is a lot of debris, already loose, not having to wait for a dry burn to be liberated. He recommends rinsing any silica wicked clearo prior to use in order to wash away any loose particles that could become airborne during operation. He suggest that you pour the rinse water into a clear container and observe it in bright light. What you’ll see suspended in the water may shock you. “Particles that are very small, you may not even feel when inhaling them unless one embeds itself in a nerve ending in your throat and produces a ‘scratchy’ feeling, like a fine cactus needle or piece of fine wire in your finger. You know it is there, but cannot see it.” By way of comparison, Asbestos in the lungs does this – the small crystals are bladed, like little knives and puncture the sacs when you breathe, and can cause scarring of the tissue, reducing its ability to properly function. Silica fibers or dust can do the same damage as asbestos because of their shape.
We already know that the wicking material in the Atlantis and other Aspire coil heads is finely chopped silica, pressed into a cake form to fill the coil head surrounding the coil. We also know that the particles that are freed during vaping are as small as 2 microns, and that the Atlantis’ massive airflow and direct lung hit style exacerbate the problem….. but what does all that really mean? How far can that particle really travel? Well to illustrate, Walt shared this: “I once had to analyze dust that was coming off a site in NY. The concern was about uncovered dirt piles. The dirt had fine glass in it, not even as fine as 2 microns. I found the glass in filters up to 5 floors up in a building several blocks away that had been collected on filters we had to install.” That’s bigger particles than we’re talking about by a long shot….. traveling, airborne, for several blocks and 5 stories up. Can 2 micron particles in a jetstream of air we’re directly inhaling reach the far corners of our delicate lung tissue? This blogger has to conclude that there can be little doubt of it!
The next question of course, is can we rebuild the heads with safer wicking material to avoid concerns? Walt had some cautions to share about that too: “If you take a head apart that uses fiberglass or this other stuff to rebuild it safer, you may actually breathe in a lot of the stuff because particles are liberated during the handling of it. To rebuild heads and strip out the bad stuff, do it while holding it under water.” Think of it this way…. “If you have ever been in a newly constructed house that just had fiberglass insulation installed, and sun beams are coming through the windows, you’ve seen the cloud of suspended particles swirling around and remaining airborne.” When you pull apart a silica-wicked coil head, you’re creating a miniature version of the same thing, but with much lighter, smaller airborne particles.
With enough pressure brought to bear, we want to believe that Aspire will create heads that inspire confidence in vapers. Kanger’s SUBTANK uses a fully organic cotton wicked head. We’d love to see Aspire do the same. Rumor has it that a rebuildable head for the Atlantis (similar in idea to the one already included with the SUBTANK) will hit the market in January. If you are concerned, write to Aspire (links below) to demand safer wicking, and vote with your dollars. If they can’t sell the heads they are currently selling, they will have no choice but produce heads we will buy. In the meantime, what should vapers do? Is there any wicking material that we can confidently say is 100% safe?
Walt has this to say: “I am not a medical doctor. I know rocks and soils and chemistry. It is up to each (vaper) to be informed and make a choice that they can live with.” Let’s face it folks, if we wanted to eliminate any and all concerns, we would quit everything, stop driving, and move to cabins in the woods far from pollutants, to live off the land. Not many of us can seriously consider such drastic actions, so instead we look to harm reduction. Each vaper has to decide for themselves what harm reduction looks like for them.
Our sincerest thanks to “Professor Walt” for his time, expertise, and willingness to let us share this information.
Celtic Fog
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great....did you not read that they have NO silica wick in their heads...they use ceramic...if ceramic cloth is heated over 1832 degrees F, it can produce the bad stuff....Does that mean you are now standing firm against ceramic wick like the stuff Ready Wick is made out of. since it is heated possibly to the point of silica dust production??
go hemp.. lol..
So seriously, without name-calling or bullshit, safe or not so safe? Rebuild or not rebuild? RDA/RBA or STFU?
Also, first post.
Also, first post.
Vermiform
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This^
Or is everyone now accusing Aspire of lying about what is in their coils? They say ceramic, not silica.......
tombaker
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The only evidence I have seen that its Silca mashed up and made into a cake, is on this thread. But I don't see anywhere how they came to this conclusion. I also do not see any pictures of the missing holes in the wick. There have been threads and threads on silica http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/health-safety-vaping/377764-dangers-silica-wicks.html The Aspire message on the Atlantis has not been attacked for its credibility too. It does look like they will make all cotton wicking though. But since they say they used the ceramic for is wicking in the first place....it will probably won't be quite as long lasting. Meanwhile people are sucking up Diacetyl E-Juice without a concern....go figure.
Kanger and rayon for me I will pass for now. The difference is we know the Ready X has been properly treated not so sure this has.
http://www.rath-usa.com/msds/CERAMIC_FIBER_PAPER.pdf
Section 5 is a bit troubling
http://www.rath-usa.com/msds/CERAMIC_FIBER_PAPER.pdf
Section 5 is a bit troubling
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Yes, I have, first hit in the morning. Kind of irritating to my throat. Smooths out after a few hits. I am not using the Atlantis now, until I rebuild it. The last thing our industry and community needs is a grand scale foul-up of our self-regulating devices. This has me turning red with ire. I will stay informed as we all should. Happy Holidays to all.
Delion
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I think what it all boils down to is what we are each comfortable with, what we each as individuals make the decision to do, as with almost everything in this industry it is each persons personal taste, and what they are comfortable with, Information is good to know on all things and as with all things there are proponents and opponents to each product and each thought process and those who take neither side of a issue.
Demoniacal
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So looking at the MSDS under storage and handling it says to keep ceramic paper dry, so maybe not exactly something we should be getting wet with juice, and then heating up, just a thought, not to mention the whole section of health hazards including irritation of the respiratory system. I'll pass.Given the possibility of any of those symptoms shown in the MSDS for what Aspire says is in their heads, I'm glad I switched to RDA/RBAs, at least I know what I'm putting in there (organic cotton only, or maybe hemp).
Celtic Fog
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Going to an RDA was the best thing I did. I use Rayon religiously, but really want to try some hemp.
InMyImage
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Unfortunately, I think that there are a lot of unknowns about the potential issues associated with any of the components of an e-liquid delivery system from the juice all the way to the wick and wire regardless of what physical form it takes.
Just because something is organic, and in the short term has no known issues does not mean that it is safe long term.
My main concern comes down to perception in our litigious society and the impact it would have on our community if anyone brought a claim to any of the variety of government agencies that oversee mass product recalls. If something ever becomes a problem for someone to complain to one of those agencies about a perceived danger from a product causing asbestos type issues, it would give the groups trying to ban open systems a fresh supply of ammo in their campaign to get rid of them.
This is my main concerning the issue with juice ingredients. Regardless of where a problem pops up that gains traction as a major health concern, it has the potential to be disastrous to the entire open system industry.
What we feel as individuals about the safety of the products we choose to use will be irrelevant.
Just because something is organic, and in the short term has no known issues does not mean that it is safe long term.
My main concern comes down to perception in our litigious society and the impact it would have on our community if anyone brought a claim to any of the variety of government agencies that oversee mass product recalls. If something ever becomes a problem for someone to complain to one of those agencies about a perceived danger from a product causing asbestos type issues, it would give the groups trying to ban open systems a fresh supply of ammo in their campaign to get rid of them.
This is my main concerning the issue with juice ingredients. Regardless of where a problem pops up that gains traction as a major health concern, it has the potential to be disastrous to the entire open system industry.
What we feel as individuals about the safety of the products we choose to use will be irrelevant.
tombaker
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Should we open it up to the "cloned" BVC coils that Fastech sells, that nobody knows what's inside them as of yet? Suffice to say we have zero data from the companies making them.
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Agreed, Asbestos is 'organic'
InMyImage
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ExactlyAgreed, Asbestos is 'organic'
I use rayon as well, and it's great. One of the things I remember about my first Kayfun build was not just the improved flavor and nicotine delivery, but the cleanliness of the taste compared to manufactured heads. It's inevitable that, just as with attys and mods, some machine oil residue is left behind, and we are vaping that briefly.
I just got two aerotank giants on the cheap to have some fill and vapes for when I'm lazy, and though improved over my Evods, they are just nowhere near what I'm used to at this point. Well made and beautiful, but they might be finding a new home. They really are damn good looking solid tanks, I'm gonna try rebuilding em before I give in.
While it's true we don't know what any of this stuff is truly doing to us, when armed with info that is negative, we should listen. I know that what I've read and heard is enough to keep me from buying an Atlantis. I'd go with a Subtank, probably would've anyway. I do acknowledge, again, that what I use could have harmful effects, too. I certainly vape diacetyl based on some of my favorite flavors.
HAHA the person that says they are switching to cartomizers, I got bad news for ya---THOSE HAVE SILICA WICKS TOO!!
Actually here are some asbestos FACTS. Asbestos is the name given to MANY compounds that are used in the Asbestos industry.Mg3Si2O5(OH)4 Chrysotile is one of the six minerals that are regulated as "asbestos". The five others are tremolite, anthophyllte, amosite (grunerite), crocidolite (riebeckite), and actinolite. So actually there is NOT one compound called asbestos. There are MANY. Asbestos is a blanket term for something like six or more compounds. I live in Montana. HUGE asbestos mining and vermiculite here. Also huge Mesothelioma and lung cancer rates too.
^^ GREAT POINT ^^ I really think that this is a very excellent question, and point. I see the utter hypocrisy here. I have a hard time believing it's not all money motivated at this point.
Most industries have a brief period of the wild west phase, but the ecig industry is still well in it. You just have to be careful navigating around the different juices, wicking, builds, etc.. but ultimately, it only boils down to a choice of risk mitigation based on your own personal standards.
Speaking of which, I'm curious to know how many Atlantis users like to fill up their tanks with Suicide Bunny juices
Speaking of which, I'm curious to know how many Atlantis users like to fill up their tanks with Suicide Bunny juices