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CEASES AND DESIST: YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT CLONES
- Thread starter VaporJoe
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EthelMaltol
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Good for you, Joe! I am happy that you are standing up for your right to link to a web site, sheesh! Whether you believe in "authentic clones"(lol) or not, you should believe that Joe has a right to link to these sites! If it comes down to needing legal help, contact the eff at eff.org. They have lawyers and help protect peoples rights on the net. Actually, they do a lot of great work, it would be good for anyone to check out! 
Keep up the good fight!
Keep up the good fight!
ClonesRAuthenticReplicas
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Thanks for admitting you huff anus. We already knew that, however, after seeing you show your Arse at the ECF in front of the Ijoy booth.
So, you fear Vape Consumers are wising up and you'll soon have to find a real job?
I think this is, indeed, the case...
its not a couple bucks, its a few hundred or a few thousand dollars depending on how many mods you buy. no one is wondering where the jobs went, they went to more business friendly environments. ive said it many times, the vaping community is a perfect example of how big government has destroyed our free market. the lack of regulations and no monopolization is creating opportunities the average guy hasnt seen in a very long time, opportunities that should be in every industry but red tape, heavy taxes, massive liabilities, legal ease, corporate monopolies etc. make it impossible. if you want to talk about losing american middle class jobs lets take a step back and ask why this is happening throughout the entire economy and not try to pin it on the consumer that cant afford/doesnt want to pay $250 for a mod and $120 for an atomizer
Celtic Fog
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when I buy products from China, I support my friends in the Longshoreman's Union. American as you can get. $250 to $400 is a lot of money to be spending to some, and when you know the price of metal and machining, you know it is overpaying. American made products cost more money, because people in niche businesses tend to make the most they can here in America. I can pay a machinist, 35 to 65 an hour at the high end, and they can crank them out like, whaaaat. And if you think a simple mod needs to be ran through a Cad, your as intelligent as I expected you to be. Middle class jobs are still here, but folks like you refuse to take them. You state that you support authentic mech mod makers, so you support SMOK, Cloupor and other China originals too, good to know....or did you mean you only support American authentic mod makers? Which is rather asinine. I love mod makers from all over the world, as long as they don't try to sell their products at an absorbent increase. I would rather support those who value their products at a reasonable price point....B Rad is the same person as Brandon btw.
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There was supposed to have been an Aethertech authentic at VaporDNA today for 65 bucks. I thought, "Well, that's not totally insane even for aluminum. I'll get it." I must have blinked. All I see is "not in stock". Now, whether that is a late shipment or they are all sold out, that's ridiculous. I am betting that if I google the clone of it, Alibaba will be offering to hook me up to a source making 5000 a week, right now.
If your dream is to make your living capturing the market in your county, God speed, sir. If your dream is to make your living supplying the world and you can't make what the world needs at a price that the rest of the world can afford in your county, maybe you should move. People do it all the time. If you are the modern day Michelangelo of Mods then Shenzhen must be the new Vatican. Take your talents on the road and see if you are as hot shit as you think that you are. They have computers in China that you can use to steal logos off of the internet, just like they do here.
Even if you have a great idea, it's up to you to foster it and to exploit it or somebody else will. I'd love to see a mod with a lanyard ring, a carabiner, or a pocket clip. (Remember pagers?) But even if you add a handy way to keep our mods off the deck, don't expect to have a monopoly. Get it while the gettin' is good. You sleep, you weep, apparently. VaporDNA reminded me of that today.
If your dream is to make your living capturing the market in your county, God speed, sir. If your dream is to make your living supplying the world and you can't make what the world needs at a price that the rest of the world can afford in your county, maybe you should move. People do it all the time. If you are the modern day Michelangelo of Mods then Shenzhen must be the new Vatican. Take your talents on the road and see if you are as hot shit as you think that you are. They have computers in China that you can use to steal logos off of the internet, just like they do here.
Even if you have a great idea, it's up to you to foster it and to exploit it or somebody else will. I'd love to see a mod with a lanyard ring, a carabiner, or a pocket clip. (Remember pagers?) But even if you add a handy way to keep our mods off the deck, don't expect to have a monopoly. Get it while the gettin' is good. You sleep, you weep, apparently. VaporDNA reminded me of that today.
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Two accounts?
Celtic Fog
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they talk almost identically, it is an assumption on my part......
Celtic Fog
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Not that I am aware of....only the owners run with multi accounts. As far as I know, you can not posses clones on this forum.....hehehehehe, i said clones.
so what you're saying is he's a clone?
I think we could all do ourselves a favor by sticking to one subject. C&Ds against websites for linking to or discussing clones is indefensible.
Bashing people for their spending choices, demonizing entire industries or countries, or making assumptions about individuals is pointless and juvenile.
Can't we all just get along?
Bashing people for their spending choices, demonizing entire industries or countries, or making assumptions about individuals is pointless and juvenile.
Can't we all just get along?
Remember, I've been permanently banned from ECF over 7 times! (winky wink wink)
5150sick
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I wish there was a double like button.
Original one of kind authentic....$599.99 and don't none of you fuckers try to clone it!
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AMEN!!
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This is how ignorant some of you are. B Rad is NOT Brandon. I know Brandon very well, trust me it's not him, nor was he at ECC, nor does he belong to ECF. It's the same boring debate, just push for no logo's clones and be done with it.
You're assumption would be wrong the reason all your electronics come from China is because our piece of shit politicians sent them there to line the pockets. I'm not made of money I a service tech and work many hours to support my family. I love how some people make assumptions about others to try and insult them instead of rebut the facts. I don't need to stoop to that level. Yes a classic lathe could turn out the metal tubes for mod but not all the pieces. Have you ever ran a lathe I have it's not 2 secs and your down there would be a lot of time in a mod. A CNc would be a lot more efficient and has a huge start up cost with overhead. Maybe I should assume your level of intelligence now? I used to spend about 200 a month on cigs. So not hard for me to justify an authentic. If you like clones that's fine vape on.
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Celtic Fog
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I am hereby serving B Rad with a C n D order....I no longer wish to communicate with you, any further communications will be in violation of this warning.
5150sick
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no fuck anybody who is trying to take my choice of which I want to buy away.
It's kind of revealing who is defending whom. Aye? Everyone else on here pretty much assumes that the other is an adult and can handle themselves....but I'll be damned if there are not about three on here that always converge at the same time, same place.....patting eachother's backsides and defending eachother like amorous lovers. Do correct me if I'm wrong, but the evidence speaks for itself. "By their fruits, you shall know them" - Matthew 7:16
Celtic Fog
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Nobody said they didnt
something we can all agree with, well said Sick.
Proxies mateI am only me I don't have multiple accounts and a mod can confirm that
So you are telling us that you would rather endure penile debridement than vape anything from Greece/Finland/Philippines/Germany, etc?
I know it's so amazing 3 people could have the similar views on this topic. Just as same with the numerous others with your similar views. You're silly.It's kind of revealing who is defending whom. Aye? Everyone else on here pretty much assumes that the other is an adult and can handle themselves....but I'll be damned if there are not about three on here that always converge at the same time, same place.....patting eachother's backsides and defending eachother like amorous lovers. Do correct me if I'm wrong, but the evidence speaks for itself. "By their fruits, you shall know them" - Matthew 7:16
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You guys know where I stand on this debate by now, but frankly... accusing dissenters of having multiple accounts and launching an investigation is a bit... well, ECF-ish. Let's stick to the topic and remember where we are, please.
The handful of you voicing your support for El Comisión should be commended for having the cajones to speak out in what is essentially the clone HQ of the internet. So... props (and I keep referring to that organization en Español because I'm getting a mental image of Fidel Castro every time I think about it for some reason... with a mech hanging outta his mouth in place of the omnipresent Cohiba... not gonna apologize for the things my brain does...).
That said, these mechanical mod manufacturers are simply looking for ways to maintain a viable commercial presence in a very narrow demographic. This is not about quality manufacturing, this is not about art. This is about a sector of the ecig industry that continues to paint itself into corners while the industry around them evolves and diversifies. This is about medieval guild-style price fixing and exploitation of a limited resource to the fullest extent possible. This is about a group of businessmen (although it may be a stretch to use that term for some) who have no choice but to satisfy the demands of their niche market, and part of that demand requires maintaining exclusivity. This is about survival. With China ramping up QC, with more and more Chinese manufacturers gaining reputations for high-quality products, domestic high-end mod makers are starting to sweat. With every passing day, there is less of an incentive for new vapers to drop $275 on an engraved metal tube that they can get from China for a fraction of that; and with every passing day, the gap between China's quality and everyone else's closes. A niche market saturates quickly. It's a losing battle. I promise you. So what to do?
Fuckifiknow. I can tell you what not to do: Antagonize everyone BUT your niche market via censorship, empty legal threats, and virtual posturing. If these guys want to protect their IP's, and they have the legal legs to stand on, then I fully support that. Unfortunately the methods they are employing serve little but to alienate potential customers in the process.
The ecig industry has brought us many great things over the years. One of the not-so-great things it has brought us is an abundance of people who have no business being in business. Entrepreneurs like Zen will continue to do well because they understand how business works, and they govern by the old adage of accepting the things they cannot change, changing the things they can, and having the wisdom to know the difference. And yeah, I paraphrased the shit outta that. Sorry.
If these guys want to succeed in this industry, they need a much, much better game plan. One that doesn't involve going after deal sites and blogs. Because that's just Fucking Stupid.
The handful of you voicing your support for El Comisión should be commended for having the cajones to speak out in what is essentially the clone HQ of the internet. So... props (and I keep referring to that organization en Español because I'm getting a mental image of Fidel Castro every time I think about it for some reason... with a mech hanging outta his mouth in place of the omnipresent Cohiba... not gonna apologize for the things my brain does...).
That said, these mechanical mod manufacturers are simply looking for ways to maintain a viable commercial presence in a very narrow demographic. This is not about quality manufacturing, this is not about art. This is about a sector of the ecig industry that continues to paint itself into corners while the industry around them evolves and diversifies. This is about medieval guild-style price fixing and exploitation of a limited resource to the fullest extent possible. This is about a group of businessmen (although it may be a stretch to use that term for some) who have no choice but to satisfy the demands of their niche market, and part of that demand requires maintaining exclusivity. This is about survival. With China ramping up QC, with more and more Chinese manufacturers gaining reputations for high-quality products, domestic high-end mod makers are starting to sweat. With every passing day, there is less of an incentive for new vapers to drop $275 on an engraved metal tube that they can get from China for a fraction of that; and with every passing day, the gap between China's quality and everyone else's closes. A niche market saturates quickly. It's a losing battle. I promise you. So what to do?
Fuckifiknow. I can tell you what not to do: Antagonize everyone BUT your niche market via censorship, empty legal threats, and virtual posturing. If these guys want to protect their IP's, and they have the legal legs to stand on, then I fully support that. Unfortunately the methods they are employing serve little but to alienate potential customers in the process.
The ecig industry has brought us many great things over the years. One of the not-so-great things it has brought us is an abundance of people who have no business being in business. Entrepreneurs like Zen will continue to do well because they understand how business works, and they govern by the old adage of accepting the things they cannot change, changing the things they can, and having the wisdom to know the difference. And yeah, I paraphrased the shit outta that. Sorry.
If these guys want to succeed in this industry, they need a much, much better game plan. One that doesn't involve going after deal sites and blogs. Because that's just Fucking Stupid.
I agree with @retrox. I look at the websites of the makers of authentics and I routinely see backordered, out of stock, etc. This tells me that demand is outstripping production, so business must be at the very minimum...GOOD. If a product is THAT good, and if it is their lifeblood and not a side occupation....then i'll buy it. We are quickly reaching the limits of how cleverly we can make a coil glow with a battery. I am from the UK....home to limited run automobiles like TVR, Morgan, Noble and such, and fortunately there is one thing that these chaps KNOW.....and that is it would be folly to even presume to compete with major automobile companies. Luxe mods are a wee niche that will only satisfy collectors and those who are in need of being validated by a device, and the smart machinist will realise this and know that profits will be modest at best. If you honestly think that making mods will put the weans through university....you just may be somewhat mental. I can safely exclude Provape from this assessment as they were here in the beginning and created that which did not exist....they are the bar that most have aspired to, and will endure for that very reason, even though they are the slow horse to the trough in technological innovation.....they are still a very well established quantity. The market has become woefully saturated with mechanical mods, only separated by design bits that catch the eye, but offer little else in vaping experience. In all honesty, it's not different then trying to decide on pasta sauce at the local grocery where boutique products are only purchased by people with boutique wallets, whilst the bulk of the sales go to what is good and cheap. China knows that profits only come from volume, and that is what they do best...this is why Shenzen is in the top 5 IPO's in the world.
Celtic Fog
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amen..
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this is a big deal. I don't really care, because I put stickers over them pretty much always. I've got a huge woody for these:
The film has inset, feel-able wood grain in it, it looks super nice, I stick it on everything:
http://i.imgur.com/2WPT0Gj.jpg
Not sure why they bother cloning the logos; I don't think many people are interested in passing them off as authentic, if anyone, ever has tried to do that.
Logoless would also likely simplify the manufacturing process, which should pass savings onto us.
dude he literally JUST plugged the provari, again, which infuriates me, because I don't think manufacturing huff and puffery justifies the price.
He's not a slave to clones, you're just a tool.
I'm positive if ALL american manufacturers just gave up, china would STILL find awesome ways to pump out new devices. You shouldn't shit on innovation and cost saving - it's good for everyone. and as many folks broke down, the markup on these things is insane, and unneeded for what frequently is just a tube. I've said it before - innovate. Push something new to the market, and expand into china - like evolv has. Sure, they get clones, but you and me and everyone know's the dna30's they were (are?) selling to china are superior to the hotcig, etc clones .With yihi's entry into the chip scene though, I feel like it's a toss up. my ZNA30 wotofo with a yihi chip hits equally as well if not better than my legit DNA30 board I bought a while back does. They both work much nicer than the ultra-cheap hana packs I've picked up.
I mostly lurked at ECF, it was heavily compartmentalized with seperate forums, which might have kept a lot of the elitism out of sight, but seriously, the bizarre zuhmg amurka huuoooorf seems to be VERY strong here. Why are some of you folks such total dongs about clones? Do I really need to point to Zen and his mega coolness about the whole cloning thing? Buy from where you want, accept the consequences. Pushing your weird ideals onto someone else is nuts. I'm not saying you should buy clones, just shut up about your weird boners all the time.
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Hartoled
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It's right there in the U.N.'s Universal Treaty of Human Rights, that bastion of goodwill towards men.
Article 19: Ya'll have the right to talk about clones.
http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/
Farther down it says you can get your kids trained to operate something more advanced than a burger grill too.
Article 19: Ya'll have the right to talk about clones.
http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/
Farther down it says you can get your kids trained to operate something more advanced than a burger grill too.
DH350nWo
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Not true. I just bought 2 skeleton keys from China for under $50. So to say you cannot get one is simply not true. You just need to search them out.
MrFixIt
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It's funny how the original topic is basically about censorship but it descends into some people posting how we shouldn't be buying a replica of a device. That really has no bearing on what these fools are trying to do here. We live in a cthatountry that allows us to speak our minds. It allows us to write about whatever we want, many leather bound books at the library. it seems to me that a lot folks have forgotten just how many men and women have sacrificed so we can exercise those rights. Political correctness has no place in a true free society but it crept in anyway and now we have all kinds of censorship being thrown at us.So now we have the pv device makers threatening us with legal action if we speak about a device that resembles one they've made which I'm sure unless it brings any ground breaking or revolutionary improvements they cannot get an exclusive patent for it anyway. This is depressing we have a runaway big government trying and succeeding to errode our rights little by little daily and now these yahoos think they can trample the rights of any individual to talk about replica,clones, or look a like pv devices! This cannot be allowed to continue in anyway shape or form and those responsible should named and picketed or boycotted for such an anti american act. This isn't about how much your device costs or where it was made. It is about my right to be able to choose what I read, write or buy for myself. It's also about staying off tabocco and helping others do the same.
it seems to me that a lot folks have forgotten just how many men and women have sacrificed so we can exercise those rights. Political correctness has no place in a true free society but it crept in anyway and now we have all kinds of censorship being thrown at us.So now we have the pv device makers threatening us with legal action if we speak about a device that resembles one they've made which I'm sure unless it brings any ground breaking or revolutionary improvements they cannot get an exclusive patent for it anyway. This is depressing we have a runaway big government trying and succeeding to errode our rights little by little daily and now these yahoos think they can trample the rights of any individual to talk about replica,clones, or look a like pv devices! This cannot be allowed to continue in anyway shape or form and those responsible should named and picketed or boycotted for such an anti american act. This isn't about how much your device costs or where it was made. It is about my right to be able to choose what I read, write or buy for myself. It's also about staying off tabocco and helping others do the same.
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Personally, i buy just about every innovative american made mod.. I support those american manufacturers that i support, and screw the rest.. 300.00 battery tubes are a thing of the past folks.. And its only 3% of our industry..
If the 3% think they can dictate to the 97% they are sadly mistaken.. So shut up, and start suing folks already..
If the 3% think they can dictate to the 97% they are sadly mistaken.. So shut up, and start suing folks already..
5150sick
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I hope they are smart enough to realize that eventually
They are going to fuck around and sue the wrong dude or tell the wrong vendor "hey you can't sell that".
You know that one wrong mutherfucker who has more money than they think.
The guy who will drag it all the way through the courts just to fuck with em'.
Then when these modders find out an actual real live judge isn't going to fall for the old "his flashlight tube looks like mine does" and "that is the logo 'I' stole off Google images for MY metal tube"
Then the modder will lose and end up paying his own legal fees AND the guy he decided to sues legal fees too.
They can hand out fancy papers typed up in microsoft word and printed out on neat looking paper all day.
They might even scare a couple people.
Eventually someone will tell them "eat a dick and sue me" Or did Joe just say that Saturday night?
They are going to fuck around and sue the wrong dude or tell the wrong vendor "hey you can't sell that".
You know that one wrong mutherfucker who has more money than they think.
The guy who will drag it all the way through the courts just to fuck with em'.
Then when these modders find out an actual real live judge isn't going to fall for the old "his flashlight tube looks like mine does" and "that is the logo 'I' stole off Google images for MY metal tube"
Then the modder will lose and end up paying his own legal fees AND the guy he decided to sues legal fees too.
They can hand out fancy papers typed up in microsoft word and printed out on neat looking paper all day.
They might even scare a couple people.
Eventually someone will tell them "eat a dick and sue me" Or did Joe just say that Saturday night?
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Well…. Looks like the C&D order pretty much made my mind up on clone or authentic purchases….
Authentic's can bite me.. LOL!!!
Authentic's can bite me.. LOL!!!