ECC BANS ALL CLONES FROM BEING SOLD

[VaporJoe]

Careful, Joe. You are part of "The Good Ol' boys club" with a different agenda. I admire the concept of letting the designers and manufacturers of the ORIGINAL equipment get credit and compensation for their hard work. Earning a living by pimping for the people that take the shortcut in getting goods to market doesn't really give you an impartial perspective. As it stands, it will be a difficult policy to enforce at a convention and needs to be an issue dealt with in the "day to day" market place. I want to be able to afford new toys, but new things can be made in China that are not trying to pass themselves off as the originals. I am sure that the new blog "Vapor Jose's - Daily Vaping Deals" would be met with a tad of frustration and resentment.

I'm my own club I also don't cry and people copy my deals and put them on their sites, and I welcome anyone to put my logo on a mod.

 

[Hobby Kid]

I think thats good they banned clones they are counterfiet products and they are stealing money from hardworking mod makers. Plz dont say price and complaining that they cost too much because in fact mods are a luxury if you cant afford it just save up i hate the fact that people complain that they are too expensive save up or make better career choices. #TeamAuthentic4Life

I think it was your last 2 lines that killed your attempt to introduce your ethics. In any case, hashtags are for fags

 

[Hobby Kid]

I think thats good they banned clones they are counterfiet products and they are stealing money from hardworking mod makers. Plz dont say price and complaining that they cost too much because in fact mods are a luxury if you cant afford it just save up i hate the fact that people complain that they are too expensive save up or make better career choices. #TeamAuthentic4Life

Clones have saved poor peoples lives!

 

[Hobby Kid]

yes, that's what frightens me

Well at least you'll never be alone. Seriously going to sleep now lol

 

[john.smyth]

ECC is in Canada this year so I guess it really doesn't matter what they do.. also wheres canada again?

 

[twizzyokc]

Maybe someone will sell their clones as authentics.. at cut price of course.

i myself think sounds like a great idea but of course invite the guys who held their hands out at ecc selling only authentics then throw a clause in the invite "you are welcome to attend the very first annual clonavape convention however you may not sell your product"

 

[whppdhubby]

Would the vendors get their booth rent back if they sold mostly Clones?

 

[rjmara]

Can someone interpret that for me? I don't understand American

Freeze is from the TVA show,and him and Mooch hosted a vapecon last weekend called Vapemania. Vapeslam is another upcoming vapecon,where clones will available for purchase.I picked up a StingrayX clone,and a PlumeVeil clone at Vapemania last weekend,Seen Joe walking around,never got a chance to talk to him though,I will say one thing,he's a big sumbitch.

 

[Celtic Fog]

Clonepocalypse 2014! Coming this winter!

 

[Hobby Kid]

Freeze is from the TVA show,and him and Mooch hosted a vapecon last weekend called Vapemania. Vapeslam is another upcoming vapecon,where clones will available for purchase.I picked up a StingrayX clone,and a PlumeVeil clone at Vapemania last weekend,Seen Joe walking around,never got a chance to talk to him though,I will say one thing,he's a big sumbitch.

Ah ok. Thanks for that.

 

[rjmara]

I don't know if that clears anything up for you or not Hobby,my American probably is no better than Joes.lol

 

[craigkite]

I'm my own club I also don't cry and people copy my deals and put them on their sites, and I welcome anyone to put my logo on a mod.

Joe, you are right about being your own club. You have an incredible business model. How many mods do you have in your "day to day" collection that you use on a regular basis? I have half a dozen total, including a couple of eGos. I understand the whole "mod envy" part of our "hobby." There has to be a way that designers can sell their OEM products and also get some bucks from the "replicas" that are made cheaper overseas. I think Keith at Empire did this pretty well with his drip shields from China. This is not a situation with a simple solution.

 

[MacFalic]

CFog, it might help if you used the correct spelling. "Conceit".

I propose: Clones Only Cigarette Kits & Electronic Re-builder Systems

Following the two links above, I became very disheartened. Rarely has such a large portion of any community completely missed the point re: clones.

You see a lot of sheep making noise because 'clones' "ruin" the Ecig industry. If a clone of a certain device is more popular than the original, the manufacturer's should get the message that their product is either not popular, or grossly over priced. That's the 'Free Market System'. Either design, improve, or lower the price to a decent level. If one is upset about being copied and losing money, build a better 'mousetrap'!

Whining and crying that you are 'butt hurt' because someone is profiting more off of your idea does exactly NOTHING!

or not...IMO

 

[Poconorock]

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Just got a text message from a bunch of people that ECC (The Electronic Cigarette Convention) has banned vendors from selling clones and replicas.

Pretty sad, considering replicas dominate the industry and make up the bulk of hardware sales.

Your feelings?

It's good to know the "Blu" booth will be genuine

 

[Noahsmokeshack]

Created an account just to say that this is bullshit.

 

[fcreeves]

I hope the turn out is grim. I think that who ever made this decision lost sight of what vaping is really about.

How many authentic do you think are vaped forward? Remember why we even vape it forward?

 

[Celtic Fog]

i got a 36,000 square foot building we can rent for 3k, includes parking and ticket booth usage, electric and water billed separately....can hold all the vendors we need for the Clonepocalypse! Beautiful Oregon settings and perfect atmosphere....whos in!?

 

[HeadInClouds]

I think thats good they banned clones they are counterfiet products and they are stealing money from hardworking mod makers. Plz dont say price and complaining that they cost too much because in fact mods are a luxury if you cant afford it just save up i hate the fact that people complain that they are too expensive save up or make better career choices. #TeamAuthentic4Life

If you want to manufacture a product that will not be cloned (too quickly), it takes extra effort and creative genius. As long as it's simple to make a cheaper copy, someone will. A truly personalized, unique, handmade design is tougher to clone. It'll take more effort and cost more to make - but will attract that certain cu$tomer base with a taste for something truly unique. If you haven't got that much creativity and business sense, your products deserve to be cloned and sold for less. Instead of whining about competition, come up with something inspired! Geez...used to be a nation of innovators.

 

[johnnyyuma]

I wonder if vendors were made aware of that ruling BEFORE or AFTER they paid astronomical fees for their booths.

Good question. I see nothing mentioned on the website or their FB page. As a consumer I'd be pissed if I traveled to Ontario (if you've never been, you ain't missed anything) only to find out the majority of the market was not allowed to represent there. It's bullshit.

 

[Poconorock]

View attachment 5061

View attachment 5067​

Just got a text message from a bunch of people that ECC (The Electronic Cigarette Convention) has banned vendors from selling clones and replicas.

Pretty sad, considering replicas dominate the industry and make up the bulk of hardware sales.

Your feelings?

Sounds like a clonenoscopy. Ouch

 

[PapaMidnight]

Makes me want to walk around vaping my hana clone, kayfun lite clone, taifun clone drip tip combo. While wearing a homemade hana shirt and a vapelyfe hat made with white out for the graphics lol

 

[Trauma Vapes]

This post is taken completely out of context. Also I think everyone that shows off clones while at the same time condemning people that prefer authentics has made you lose site of the purpose of vaping. Real vaping hobbyist want authentic. People that want a good mod and can not afford it buy clones. People that sit and complain about authentic owners are just plain jealous and do not understand what a hobby is. Look at any other industry on this planet. A hobbyist spends large sums of money on their hobby. Most of the time there are cheaper alternatives but they are not exact copies of the item. But since people want to whine and complain about, "how over-priced authentics are," they get clones. Complete rip offs of intellectual property and hard work. And furthermore... there has yet to be a clone made(in my experience) that performs as well or better in every test you throw at it. There are always things wrong with clones.

P.S. I happen to own both authentic and clones. I say if you have to choose between food for kids or a mod go with the food. And if you want to make and sell clones.... remove the labels and logos. Then I will say sell all the clones you want. Because people will buy a non logo hana just as much as one with a logo. Same with 99% of all other mods.

 

[saxguy9345]

I think this is a necessary step in the ecig revolution, but it's not to be made the day before an event. As mentioned, are clone vendors going to be reimbursed for their spot? Idiotic at the least. Honestly, it was bound to happen. What does this mean? A whole lotta decently priced authentics coming out. Haven't clone makers already announced in-house "authentic" mods? I haven't paid more than $50 for a mod since I started, and, aside from aesthetics, never even got the urge to. Hopefully this is a wake up call.... oh and link the pre-order for tickets to CloneCon lol

 

[VaporJoe]

This post is taken completely out of context. Also I think everyone that shows off clones while at the same time condemning people that prefer authentics has made you lose site of the purpose of vaping. Real vaping hobbyist want authentic. People that want a good mod and can not afford it buy clones. People that sit and complain about authentic owners are just plain jealous and do not understand what a hobby is. Look at any other industry on this planet. A hobbyist spends large sums of money on their hobby. Most of the time there are cheaper alternatives but they are not exact copies of the item. But since people want to whine and complain about, "how over-priced authentics are," they get clones. Complete rip offs of intellectual property and hard work. And furthermore... there has yet to be a clone made(in my experience) that performs as well or better in every test you throw at it. There are always things wrong with clones.

P.S. I happen to own both authentic and clones. I say if you have to choose between food for kids or a mod go with the food. And if you want to make and sell clones.... remove the labels and logos. Then I will say sell all the clones you want. Because people will buy a non logo hana just as much as one with a logo. Same with 99% of all other mods.

You FAIL to realize that many mod makers work with China and or have their mods made in China. In the end ALL mechanicals are clones - they just have different cake decorating on them.

 

[Trauma Vapes]

You FAIL to realize that many mod makers work with China and or have their mods made in China. In the end ALL mechanicals are clones - they just have different cake decorating on them.

There is a difference between getting something milled in China and having a chinese company steal your work and make it inferior.

 

[M5amhan]

If you want to manufacture a product that will not be cloned (too quickly), it takes extra effort and creative genius. As long as it's simple to make a cheaper copy, someone will. A truly personalized, unique, handmade design is tougher to clone. It'll take more effort and cost more to make - but will attract that certain cu$tomer base with a taste for something truly unique. If you haven't got that much creativity and business sense, your products deserve to be cloned and sold for less. Instead of whining about competition, come up with something inspired! Geez...used to be a nation of innovators.

or instead of whining about the competition, join them. find out who is putting out quality clones of the products and team up with them, designed in the USA produced in wherever. merge markets (clone and authentic) and mass produce your product for a good price. have real quality control on site to ensure the highest quality. trying to clone that sort of model would be useless and likely would result in shitty products trying to get the cheapest price if it was attempted. is it seriously that hard?

 

[punkonjunk]

Really?
A convention is the perfect place for a vendor to show us WHY his metal tube somehow beats the clone of it; show us the difference. Break out a magnifying glass. A loup, or shit, a microscope.
IF your tube of metal is worth 100, 200, 300+, show us why and outsell your competition. If not.... accept the inevitable, or innovate and patent, like evolv.

 

[VaporJoe]

There is a difference between getting something milled in China and having a chinese company steal your work and make it inferior.

yea they get it milled in China for peanuts and charge an arm and a leg. Then they wonder why its cloned?? Give me a break lol.. Work the Chinese and your items will be cloned - its just reality.

 

[IceCreamMan]

LoL! I love the butthurt.

 

[skenzer]

It seems there has been a new trend for less expensive mods and RDAs coming on the market. Why? Because there is more competition and the manufacturers who have been price gouging for their products are finally having to charge realistic prices. $200 plus for a mod is ridiculous. Over $100 for an RDA is obscene. I buy the clones because the price makes sense.
Recently, I purchased a Vulcan, a CLT and a mutation X rda. None of these are considered clones and the price was reasonable. Make a good product and charge a reasonable price for it and the clones will start going away. Simply banning them from events isn't going to do jack shit.

 

[Huckleberried]

You FAIL to realize that many mod makers work with China and or have their mods made in China. In the end ALL mechanicals are clones - they just have different cake decorating on them.

That sounds like pharmaceutical companies. They make the brand, they make the generic, they make the $ for all.

 

[VaporJoe]

It seems there has been a new trend for less expensive mods and RDAs coming on the market. Why? Because there is more competition and the manufacturers who have been price gouging for their products are finally having to charge realistic prices. $200 plus for a mod is ridiculous. Over $100 for an RDA is obscene. I buy the clones because the price makes sense.
Recently, I purchased a Vulcan, a CLT and a mutation X rda. None of these are considered clones and the price was reasonable. Make a good product and charge a reasonable price for it and the clones will start going away. Simply banning them from events isn't going to do jack shit.

Tell people they cant... and they push back harder.

 

[skenzer]

I think thats good they banned clones they are counterfiet products and they are stealing money from hardworking mod makers. Plz dont say price and complaining that they cost too much because in fact mods are a luxury if you cant afford it just save up i hate the fact that people complain that they are too expensive save up or make better career choices. #TeamAuthentic4Life

Wow, there is so much wrong with what you have said. I don't even know where to begin.

 

[Trauma Vapes]

Again.... I am all for clones... if you remove logos and labels.

 

[skenzer]

Tell people they cant... and they push back harder.

Word

 

[Trauma Vapes]

And Joe... what do you say to the hard working mod makers that do not mass produce and do not send to china.... Are they free to create works of art and charge what they feel they have earned? Because if that is ok your stance is flawed.

 

[skenzer]

Again.... I am all for clones... if you remove logos and labels.

This is where I'm going as well. Brands work hard and spend a lot of money on developing their name. Keep the logos off the products and that will go along ways.
I personally have never purchased a clone with the intentions of passing it off as being the real thing. I could care less if the logo is on there or not.

 

[Celtic Fog]

There is a difference between getting something milled in China and having a chinese company steal your work and make it inferior.

lol, never seen an original outperform the clones....except in the shiney department. Metal is metal and a tube is a tube.

 

[Bluzrif]

Bound to happen ...these events are funded in part by booth buyers. b to b contacts are made and business between vendors is done. If an innovator booth is next to cloner booth there may be some odd moments. further complicated by the fact that the innovator is now suspected of being in on the cloning game as well ... my head is starting to hurt. I bet some squeaky wheel asked for protection and got it... For a fee of course

 

[Frawg]

I went to buy CloneCon.com .. already taken

I'm guessing the owner of the name has something to do with Star Wars, as I read CloneCon and went "well we'd get a bunch of starwars cosplayers to show up for sure," not that I hate the name, just that it was the first thought that entered my mind when I read it.

CloneVapeCon - not to be confused with CDC, is that one available @VaporJoes

 

[VapingAmes]

Too bad. There are a lot of people that buy clones to determine if they enjoy it enough to drop the money on an authentic. I honestly wouldn't go to this being an average vaper myself (I own no clones). I prefer to not alienate anyone and enjoy people that rock cigalikes and egos as much as the ones with 300 mods. The sad part is that a lot of new vapers that probably won't go now.

 

[IceCreamMan]

It not about which is better... It about one being a fucking ripoff of someone else's work. No logos or straight out design copy's fine.. No one would have this problem. To support or defend this ripoff commie slave labor practice in it current straight up stealing form is pure bullshit.

No morals
No ethics
The same mouth breathers that screw over their own mother for a dollar.....

That's what you clone lovers are, plain and simple.

 

[Trauma Vapes]

It not about which is better... It about one being a fucking ripoff of someone else's work. No logos or straight out design copy's fine.. No one would have this problem. To support or defend this ripoff commie slave labor practice in it current straight up stealing form is pure bullshit.

No morals
No ethics
The same mouth breathers that screw over their own mother for a dollar.....

That's what you clone lovers are, plain and simple.

Not sure I fully agree with this statement.

 

[greggi pichardo]

I respect the original inventors and their products, however people like myself would never be able to enjoy a decent vape were it not for the affordable clone replicas etc. I don't believe that the inventors are really losing money but are possibly partnering with those that make the clones. Correct or not freedom in business seems right to me.

 

[Frawg]

lol, never seen an original outperform the clones....except in the shiney department. Metal is metal and a tube is a tube.

The only thing I've seen the authentics do better is suck in terms of quality control, R&D, and after-sale customer service & warrantying against inherent defects - of which with the 4nine, I can name a few that a buddy is STILL trying to get sorted out. $349 I think it was for something that was pushed to market and shipped DOA, and that was 2-3 months ago...but that's the only thing I've seen some originals do better at.

 

[Trauma Vapes]

I respect the original inventors and their products, however people like myself would never be able to enjoy a decent vape were it not for the affordable clone replicas etc. I don't believe that the inventors are really loosing money but are possibly partnering with those that make the clones. Correct or not freedom in business seems right to me.

Please remember, were this an american company making the clones.... they would be sued, forced to stop and quite possibly arrested. Poor mans patent means you only have to prove you produced the product before them.

 

[MushroomCloud]

if it wasn't for clones I would of probably went back to ciggs am not loaded with money to buy expensive flash light tube

 

[Trauma Vapes]

The only thing I've seen the authentics do better is suck in terms of quality control, R&D, and after-sale customer service & warrantying against inherent defects - of which with the 4nine, I can name a few that a buddy is STILL trying to get sorted out. $349 I think it was for something that was pushed to market and shipped DOA, and that was 2-3 months ago...but that's the only thing I've seen some originals do better at.

I have never had an authentic arc on me. I have never had an authentic switch get burning hot after a 1 second pull on a .8ohm build. I have never had an authentic melt a spring or button. Perhaps what you mean to say is... the make of the 4nine simply made an inferior product. same as the first run hexohms. Blame them. Not authentics. I will judge clone brands I have owned and never one I have not. There will always be issues with a company. 90% of the time the mod is fine, the customer service rocks and and the qc/r&d is wonderful from authentics.

There in lies another issue. The reason clones are cheaper is because they do nothing but get a computer to laser size the device and automill it. they have no R&D or real QC team to speak of. Notice the devices the clone makers are coming out with as their own authentics cost just a little bit more than their clones. also they have the money and materials and computers to mass produce them cheaper than authentics.

So next time you say, "authentics can be cheaper!" just buy a clone and shut up. I am sure they can be. But they will never be as cheap as clones due to cost to make.You want cheap and well made? Buy a local made box mod. 40-150 bucks and it is not a metal tube!

 

[Roger Schaeffer]

House of Hybrids News (Zen's Blog)

Quote:
So the Chi-NA clone is finally in the states, at least a sample of one has landed. I am very pleased they used Z2 threading and they maintained the same tube length. It is as close to a 1-1 clone as they can probably manage at the price point.

IF they are using the "dna clone" board that is in the CHANA it is important that people who are considering this purchase understand that the device will have NO battery condition monitoring or any of the safety features associated with the battery monitoring circuit. It does have a battery level meter... this is not the same thing as condition monitoring.

I am looking forward to the many number of people that will now get to experience the Z2 system at china prices. People entering the system from this direction will be able to add accessories from the existing Z2 lineup to personalize their Chi-NA, and if they decide to continue on and purchase an Authentic ZNA, the purchase of the accessories will not be a wasted effort. They will slide right onto the real device.

I will be contacting the manufacturer to see what we can do about getting access to these for certification as a factory authorized edition.

We live in a global economy. We have to embrace change. For those of you that feel they have stolen my design, it is true... they have... but the important thing about being in this industry is that devices like this save lives by helping people free themselves of their dependency on cigarettes and combustible tobacco.

If you are concerned about the effect this will have on my business and the livelihoods of my employees, please encourage the purchasers of the Chi-NA to accessorize with genuine ZenKote parts. I do ask that you NOT alienate people that make the choice to own a Chi-NA.

It took them 8 months to knock this one off... that's a long time in this industry, but we all knew it would happen. I am not going to file lawsuits against the resellers as others have done. I am not going to threaten the manufacturer in any way. If the American public wants to buy a knock-off of my design then they are going to buy it, no matter what I do. This is the world we live in, and I intend to embrace change

 

[Trauma Vapes]

if it wasn't for clones I would of probably went back to ciggs am not loaded with money to buy expensive flash light tube

You are not a hobbyist vapor. You are a cessation vaper. High end mods are more for collectors and hobbyist. Which is why people whine and complain. They want the high end mods but do not want to pay for it. It is occupy wall street all over again.