ECC BANS ALL CLONES FROM BEING SOLD

[Vapor Fiend]

I apologize in advance for spelling errors. Typing this on my phone..


You know, I'm kind of on the fence about this really. As a vaper, I love the availability of different mods, even if they are "clones" or "replicas". But, as a machinist and designer, I understand the frustration with companies having their hard work copied and sold for less, leaving them with no profit. The process to make these tubes is simple, but with material cost and man hours, you need to recoup some investment. But in the other hand, some mods are just outrageously overpriced. Regardless of material cost and man hours to design, program, setup and operate for the parts, no mod should cost +$500, ever.

And the fact that most of these mods are extremely simple tubes with extremely loose tolerances doesn't make it any harder for someone to just turn one themselves. I'm not even sure legal protection could stop anyone from turning or milling parts like these as they are mostly so simple in design and function. It pretty much comes down to logos.

The differences are so small between authentic and clone that it really makes no differences. Maybe a royalty situation could help, but who would cough up percentage for making a tube that looks like someone else's?

I know if I made a design and machined it, then distributed it and sold it, only to find out someone made the same thing and is selling them for $100 less, I'd be pissed. But at the same time I can't really be mad if my design was a tube and two caps with a silly engraved or etched logo.

 

[Hobby Kid]

The Johnny Come Latelys in the "I hate clones" discussion is soo last week now.

 

[BigNasty]

You know, I'm kind of on the fence about this really. As a vaper, I live the availability of different mods, even if they are "clones" or "replicas". But, as a machinist and designer, I understand the frustration with companies having their hard work copied and sold for less, leaving them with no profit. The process to make these tubes is simple, but with material cost and man hours, you need to recoup some investment. But in the other hand, some mods are just outrageously overpriced. Regardless of material cost and man hours to design, program, setup and operate for the parts, no mod should cost +$500, ever.

And the fact that most of these mods are extremely simple tubes with extremely loose tolerances doesn't make it any harder for someone to just turn one themselves. I'm not even sure legal protection could stop anyone from turning or milling parts like these as they are mostly so simple in design and function. It pretty much comes down to logos.

The differences are so small between authentic and clone that it really makes no differences. Maybe a royalty situation could help, but who would cough up percentage for making a tube that looks like someone else's?

I know if I made a design and machined it, then distributed it and sold it, only to find out someone made the same thing and is selling them for $100 less, I'd be pissed. But at the same time I can't really be mad if my design was a tube and two caps with a silly engraved or etched logo.

I have seen authentics side by side with some clones, the clones looked more like a factory second than anything else.
I think the real problem is the same one in the past when some makers were pocket raping both sides of the fence.... china manufacture the real and clone and getting money from both.

But the real issue is the ECC pulling an ECF is BS. It is a trade show, hell hock the wares no matter what it is..
If I like my clone over your authentic more for some reason other than price... take some fucking notes and tailor it to uses the vast majority instead of sniveling like an elitist whore.

 

[doj818]

Everyone needs to shut up and stop fighting. You own clones? Cool, me too. You own authentics? That's rad, me too. BOTH OF THESE HAVE PRO AND CONS. It's preference, how deep you are into the hobby, etc. I find, however, the difference between attys and mods is pretty big. Clone attys? I love 'em. I have quite a few. Clone mods? Both my chi you and 4nine clones have defects and arc. But my FUhattan out performs my authentic, and my clone Manhattan actually performs just as well. As for ECC, it's their convention, their rules. Don't like it? Don't go. Simple. Simple. Simple. And Joe, keep up the awesome forum and site. Now everyone stop fighting and chuck some fuggin clouds.

 

[Merrick92]

Again, it may just be absolving them of responsibility for clones being sold. Kinda like car rental saying "we are not responsible for what our renters do while renting our vehicle."

 

[Hobby Kid]

If I was a vendor there planning on selling clones and this bullshit came up at the last minute.. refund the table cost or shut the fuck im selling my inventory.

Set up a clone hot dawg stand outside. It'll sell.. and you get a free hot dog

 

[BigNasty]

Set up a clone hot dawg stand outside. It'll sell.. and you get a free hot dog

I think water would go over better.
Buy a clone get a bottle of water.
Move along.

Giant wheeled cooler with a sign... FREE water ask me how.
A display in a bag of what you have for sale...
Sell a mod/atty of the clone type hand them a free bottle of water...

 

[VaporJoe]

I think water would go over better.
Buy a clone get a bottle of water.
Move along.

Giant wheeled cooler with a sign... FREE water ask me how.
A display in a bag of what you have for sale...
Sell a mod/atty of the clone type hand them a free bottle of water...

Buy this bottle of water for $19.00 get a nemesis for free!

 

[Whiskey]

Everyone needs to shut up and stop fighting. You own clones? Cool, me too. You own authentics? That's rad, me too. BOTH OF THESE HAVE PRO AND CONS. It's preference, how deep you are into the hobby, etc. I find, however, the difference between attys and mods is pretty big. Clone attys? I love 'em. I have quite a few. Clone mods? Both my chi you and 4nine clones have defects and arc. But my FUhattan out performs my authentic, and my clone Manhattan actually performs just as well. As for ECC, it's their convention, their rules. Don't like it? Don't go. Simple. Simple. Simple. And Joe, keep up the awesome forum and site. Now everyone stop fighting and chuck some fuggin clouds.

 

[Celtic Fog]

whoa now, lets not run past the hot dog stand idea....nothing better than a hot dog from a cart!

 

[fuzzyone]

There is a difference between getting something milled in China and having a chinese company steal your work and make it inferior.

There are also clones that work better than the authentics. China fixed the problems when the modder was too ignorant too.

 

[Hobby Kid]

you know, when sunday trading was illegal in the uk, electrical shops were selling apples for like £100 and you'd get a free washing machines and stuff

 

[Celtic Fog]

you guys do know, that you can buy a clone, and buff and polish it up as well....no more sharp edges and burs takes about 10 minutes, a good polish job can be done at home in less than half an hour....

 

[Hobby Kid]

you guys do know, that you can buy a clone, and buff and polish it up as well....no more sharp edges and burs takes about 10 minutes, a good polish job can be done at home in less than half an hour....

A good Polish job or any Eastern European really will do the trick

 

[Celtic Fog]

pol·ish
ˈpäliSH/
verb

1. 1.
   make the surface of (something) smooth and shiny by rubbing it.
   "she unloaded the dishwasher and polished the glasses"
   synonyms:shine, wax, buff, rub up/down; More
   

noun

1. 1.
   a substance used to give something a smooth and shiny surface when rubbed in.
   "furniture polish"
   synonyms:wax, glaze, varnish; More
   
   
   
   

Damn english to english translations lol

 

[VaporJoe]

There are also clones that work better than the authentics. China fixed the problems when the modder was too ignorant too.

Yep.. one mod comes to mind... The Valkyrie

 

[Hobby Kid]

pol·ish
ˈpäliSH/
verb

1. 1.
   make the surface of (something) smooth and shiny by rubbing it.
   "she unloaded the dishwasher and polished the glasses"
   synonyms:shine, wax, buff, rub up/down; More

noun

1. 1.
   a substance used to give something a smooth and shiny surface when rubbed in.
   "furniture polish"
   synonyms:wax, glaze, varnish; More
   
   

Damn english to english translations lol

hahaha
there's irony in this somewhere

 

[Celtic Fog]

Dont get me wrong Kid, im down for an Eastern European job any day, as long as she is hot and has a heavy accent...hehehehehe

 

[Cherry]

Wow I have a few clones ! It should be directed to the vender selling a clone as an original product , Reno Nv has a few shops that sell you clones as original product ,I had to learn the hard way

 

[fuzzyone]

That is in no way true. When I started vaping in 09 before clones.... there were mech mods and variables and no clones. and ego kits were 60 bucks for 2 batts 2 tanks a charger and a case. so please do not spread blatant lies.

Then you got a deal on the egos. I went searching in 09 and wouldn't pay the crazy assed prices that they wanted. VJ is correct in his statement. So who's spreading the lies?

 

[VaporJoe]

Got word from a few vendors at ECC. They WERE NOT told before paying for their tables. It was a last minute email. One told me they didnt even know about it until they listened to Dimitri's Radio show.

 

[Sahsah]

I think thats good they banned clones they are counterfiet products and they are stealing money from hardworking mod makers. Plz dont say price and complaining that they cost too much because in fact mods are a luxury if you cant afford it just save up i hate the fact that people complain that they are too expensive save up or make better career choices. #TeamAuthentic4Life

Wow. So you seem fairly apathetic to those of us whom may not be lucky enough to possess a disposable income with which they can squander on the latest and greatest metal tube every month for hundreds of dollars. Just because you may come from a privileged upbringing and therefore bare outlooks muddled with upper-middle class apathy or ignorance, doesn't mean there aren't those out there who were born into socio-economic conditions that are unbelievably arduous to overcome, leaving "luxury" vaping gear the last thing on the list that their money is going towards. You'll find when you have to scrounge and skip meals every month just to scrape the rent money together, the darnedest thing seems to happen and magically your outlook on the acceptability of purchasing clones suddenly becomes much more forgiving.

 

[Giraut]

A good Polish job or any Eastern European really will do the trick

I'm assuming this has nothing to with the following definition from urbandictionary.com

Polish
1.Male with large penis; Boy,Teen & Man.

2.Large usually exceeding 8 inches.

3.Attractive Man downstairs.
"Damn pual , your penis is so polish!" -Betsy

 

[BigNasty]

Got word from a few vendors at ECC. They WERE NOT told before paying for their tables. It was a last minute email. One told me they didnt even know about it until they listened to Dimitri's Radio show.

Then fuck em (the ecc) sell sell sell.
If they have an issue with it refund the table cost either way fuck em.

 

[BigNasty]

OH NO BOOBS!! the world is going to end..
Wait it is VEGAS I would be angry as shit if there were not tips in vegas.

 

[Rick RED]

IMHO, everyone has an opinion which indicates brain function ( this is good). I might not agree with your opinion, and that's OK. You might try to sway me to your thoughts, if your argument is sound I could change my view, but to divide everyone to one side of the fence or the other is counterproductive. Whether you took jumper cables from a car battery to a baseboard heater stuffed full of tampons, soak in jungle juice, or enjoy the mod of your choice. Vaping is an individual event, you do it why you do it, and with what you can afford to do it with. I look forward to the first anti-matter reactor mod that doesn't need to recharge, finding new ways to enjoy this reason not to smoke tobacco. I have learned a lot about the hobby/habit here, and applaud the people who made this site possible.
Don't hate on people you don't agree with. My opinion and I could be wrong.

 

[Ellipsis]

you guys do know, that you can buy a clone, and buff and polish it up as well....no more sharp edges and burs takes about 10 minutes, a good polish job can be done at home in less than half an hour....

yepperz...
been polishing my tube for quite some time now...
rarely takes over a half hour

 

[Fishee]

Wow I have a few clones ! It should be directed to the vender selling a clone as an original product , Reno Nv has a few shops that sell you clones as original product ,I had to learn the hard way

Yeah same here. I was totally brand new and ignorant to mechs when I got my first one. Got it thinking it was a great deal for a Nemesis and dropped 50 bucks (sale price LOL) for it from the vendor.
Live and learn.
Now I know what to look for.
BTW I love my Neme clone even though the copper is wearing off and you can see the brass underneath.
I have no issues with clones. I have issues with shady vendors taking advantage of ignorant fucks like me.

 

[CaFF]

People should read this posting by zArrAs on FT about his mods being cloned. He thanks them.
(granted, FT only sells stuff, they don't make anything, but it's a good audience)

Just read it, eh?

https://www.fasttech.com/forums/1746703/t/1298135/hank-you-for-cloning-my-desing-mod

 

[Merrick92]

Got word from a few vendors at ECC. They WERE NOT told before paying for their tables. It was a last minute email. One told me they didnt even know about it until they listened to Dimitri's Radio show.

Again, this may have just been ecc's way of covering their own asses with regards to lawsuits. If someone from Hana was at the show and saw a clone being sold, they could have not only gone after the guy selling it, but ecc as well. The fact that people are openly selling the clones kinda backs this up a bit.
....just my 2 cents

 

[CaFF]

Again, this may have just been ecc's way of covering their own asses with regards to lawsuits. If someone from Hana was at the show and saw a clone being sold, they could have not only gone after the guy selling it, but ecc as well. The fact that people are openly selling the clones kinda backs this up a bit.
....just my 2 cents

Yup, that is what my guess is. They were threatened.

 

[fuzzyone]

To those Authentic elitists in the thread, I offer this.....

Is that a clone or an authentic? Bwahahahaha......

 

[VaporJoe]

Wow. So you seem fairly apathetic to those of us whom may not be lucky enough to possess a disposable income with which they can squander on the latest and greatest metal tube every month for hundreds of dollars. Just because you may come from a privileged upbringing and therefore bare outlooks muddled with upper-middle class apathy or ignorance, doesn't mean there aren't those out there who were born into socio-economic conditions that are unbelievably arduous to overcome, leaving "luxury" vaping gear the last thing on the list that their money is going towards. You'll find when you have to scrounge and skip meals every month just to scrape the rent money together, the darnedest thing seems to happen and magically your outlook on the acceptability of purchasing clones suddenly becomes much more forgiving.

I agree with you 100%. These devices help a lot of people not everyone has 200 bucks to spend on a metal tube. Specially those on disability. What next?? Meds or Mods?

 

[Sahsah]

L

This post is taken completely out of context. Also I think everyone that shows off clones while at the same time condemning people that prefer authentics has made you lose site of the purpose of vaping. Real vaping hobbyist want authentic. People that want a good mod and can not afford it buy clones. People that sit and complain about authentic owners are just plain jealous and do not understand what a hobby is. Look at any other industry on this planet. A hobbyist spends large sums of money on their hobby. Most of the time there are cheaper alternatives but they are not exact copies of the item. But since people want to whine and complain about, "how over-priced authentics are," they get clones. Complete rip offs of intellectual property and hard work. And furthermore... there has yet to be a clone made(in my experience) that performs as well or better in every test you throw at it. There are always things wrong with clones.


P.S. I happen to own both authentic and clones. I say if you have to choose between food for kids or a mod go with the food. And if you want to make and sell clones.... remove the labels and logos. Then I will say sell all the clones you want. Because people will buy a non logo hana just as much as one with a logo. Same with 99% of all other mods.

lol Then it sounds like your "experience" with clones is rather inconsequential because I've seen numerous clones going for fractions of the price that the original retails for (like 1/10 the price, which is nothing to sneeze at), while still managing to outperform it when compared head to head in reviews. I'm referring to voltage drop, build quality, switch feel, engraving depth and detail, etc etc
When another company can make exactly the same product as well as the original modder did or even better in some cases and still sell it for one tenth the price, there's something screw-ey with the original modder's perceived idea of what their profit margins should look like... Just IMO of course =]

 

[Whiskey]

I agree with you 100%. These devices help a lot of people not everyone has 200 bucks to spend on a metal tube. Specially those on disability. What next?? Meds or Mods?

And availability if they do....Fuck waiting on lists and refreshing when the one you like is in stock and its a mad house walmart style.

 

[Sahsah]

You are not a hobbyist vapor. You are a cessation vaper. High end mods are more for collectors and hobbyist. Which is why people whine and complain. They want the high end mods but do not want to pay for it. It is occupy wall street all over again.

Who made you the judge and jury of the vaping world? This isn't Lion King, you're not Simba, and everything the light touches is NOT your kingdom. Seriously bro, reality check, how do you know whether they are a hobbyist or not, what because you read a few lines they typed online? Seems to me, if anything, what vaping is NOT about is elitism, exclusivity, and adolescent cliquish delineation where what you can afford defines how enthusiastic and passionate you are about vaping

 

[UncleRJ]

I did a very quick internet poll and found only one person in favor of banning all clones and punishing the manufactures responsible for offering them at reasonable prices.

 

[bigfordmano5]

I think it was your last 2 lines that killed your attempt to introduce your ethics. In any case, hashtags are for fags

 

[bigfordmano5]

Who cares as long as Your away from.the cancer Sticks For Fucks sakes.......

#hashtag #eatagoatdick #dogballs # fuck hashtags Lol

 

[hitman4274]

Just isnt cool in my book... As stated in the op.. clones rule the hardware market...

 

[kelli]

yepperz...
been polishing my tube for quite some time now...
rarely takes over a half hour

wham bam thank you vam (o)?

 

[Sahsah]

The only thing I've seen the authentics do better is suck in terms of quality control, R&D, and after-sale customer service & warrantying against inherent defects - of which with the 4nine, I can name a few that a buddy is STILL trying to get sorted out. $349 I think it was for something that was pushed to market and shipped DOA, and that was 2-3 months ago...but that's the only thing I've seen some originals do better at.

I think your buddy simply got ripped off, because I'm pretty sure a 4nine goes for closer to half that price...

 

[brandon]

I agree with you 100%. These devices help a lot of people not everyone has 200 bucks to spend on a metal tube. Specially those on disability. What next?? Meds or Mods?

They can buy authentic's in their price range. Does a person on disability need a Glas? Do they need the newest and hottest authentics? No. They can buy what they can afford and be giving money to the modders. Live withen your means but do it respectfully. And most of the clone people dont just buy one mod most if not all of them have 10+ setups that are unnecessary just get a nice setup or two.

 

[Celtic Fog]

for every "authentic" in the world, there are 500+ of the clones....so what if cloners start a "Down With Authentics" campaign?

 

[doj818]

I did a very quick internet poll and found only one person in favor of banning all clones and punishing the manufactures responsible for offering them at reasonable prices.

Should be a pic of Eric, the guy that runs Ameravape. That dude has some sort of massive stick up his ass about clones, even tho he used to use them haha.

 

[Innovaper]

I fail to see the major problem here. It's an expo and not allowing what would be 1:1 clones aka counterfeit items. I don't have a problem with them personally but this is a convention expo, why should this industry be different than any other one and allow the actual items to be showcased and sold and have someone else selling a counterfeit version for less at the expo? Try this at any other industry and report back on how well that plays out. Yes it should have been communicated sooner and better for vendors selling items there. Other than that, rather use influence and voices to demand no logo versions and/or unique logo versions and remove that part from the equation and people won't have a legitimate gripe. It's as simple as that. I don't care what you vape so long as it has got you off cigarettes. But that doesn't mean that it is okay to copy logos as well nor for those items to be sold at expos with those copied logos.

 

[CaFF]

Funny, nobody ever cloned the Buzz Pro, I wonder why?

I bought one used for $45 a few years ago and Mike didn't mind a bit. Still a fave mod.
I also bought a Moneypenny for $60 because it's cool and I am happy to buy from a WA vendor I know fairly well.

That said, I own a lot of clone gear too, mechs and rbas mostly. Because I can afford them and shouldn't HAVE to save up for 3 months just to buy one mod I might not even like. My copper Panzer I got for $20 is near flawless...no damn way it's worth the $200+ some dude in the phils wants for it.

They are laughing their asses off that "rich americans" are lining up to buy their CNC'd shit. You do realize that the majority of the world is sick of America and is more than happy to take our foolish money, right?

This: http://johnnymacreviews.wordpress.c...pper-mechanical-mod-clone-from-focalecig-com/

If people want to pay $200 for something that cost a tenth of that to make, go for it. I don't. I support myself, not anyone else.

 

[UncleRJ]

I fail to see the major problem here. It's an expo and not allowing what would be 1:1 clones aka counterfeit items. I don't have a problem with them personally but this is a convention expo, why should this industry be different than any other one and allow the actual items to be showcased and sold and have someone else selling a counterfeit version for less at the expo? Try this at any other industry and report back on how well that plays out. Yes it should have been communicated sooner and better for vendors selling items there. Other than that, rather use influence and voices to demand no logo versions and/or unique logo versions and remove that part from the equation and people won't have a legitimate gripe. It's as simple as that. I don't care what you vape so long as it has got you off cigarettes. But that doesn't mean that it is okay to copy logos as well nor for those items to be sold at expos with those copied logos.

I totally agree. Making a clone is one thing. Adding another companies logo to it is quite another, IE the Hanna Mods lawsuit.

And if you absolutely must have the real deal, pay for it and enjoy the inner glow you get from the experience.

Me, I just want good gear at a reasonable price that delivers as promised.

And I can get my own "Glow" from a great vape.

 

[Vlad1]

Pretty hot topic here. Good to see such open debates. So here is something for thought.

A few years back I had a car I bought from an auto auction for my son and it was a Geo Prizm. After replacing the break pads on it and finding the calipers, struts and a handful of other parts underneath labeled Toyota I began looking into it further. Guess what that car was a clone of a Toyota Corolla rebranded as a Geo. A few years later we bought a new car for my wife and it was a Chevy Prism guess what it was the same as the Toyota Corolla as well. So I know there were joint ventures involved in the making of each of these cars but in my mind its a close analogy being that most of the mods are being made by the same folks in China anyway.

Same basic car, different service / customer service, probably warranty, different options etc.
So who would buy what?

Toyota - The Elitist
Chevy - Avg. Joe
Geo - ME because if it is practically the same vehicle I'm not going to spend the extra for a name or brand or label.

 

[Celtic Fog]

My ADPV is a Groove II...not a clone, but only cost $40....respect.