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ECC BANS ALL CLONES FROM BEING SOLD

Yeah same here. I was totally brand new and ignorant to mechs when I got my first one. Got it thinking it was a great deal for a Nemesis and dropped 50 bucks (sale price LOL) for it from the vendor.
Live and learn.
Now I know what to look for.
BTW I love my Neme clone even though the copper is wearing off and you can see the brass underneath.
I have no issues with clones. I have issues with shady vendors taking advantage of ignorant fucks like me.
Yes I agree when I started seven months ago I knew nothing and some shops took advantage of that ! Now I know better have become a vapor and it's a great hobby I love not being on nasty tobacco sticks after smoking for over 30 years , just got a lot of mods now and loving vap
 

Innovaper

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Vlad1 - And in that example even aside from joint ventures people were fine because Geo wasn't selling it with the Toyota Corolla branding nor the Chevy Prism and so forth. The main crux of this situation is the logos and their use. There is _no_ reason for them to carry those logos. It takes next to nothing or nothing for them to not even do any logos or a unique different logo. And I have to question why people get so angry at the notion of removing logos or unique different logos. The only real reason it could matter was for a scam artist to pawn off the clone as authentic. And for anyone doing that I hope the fleas of a thousand camels infest their crotches and their arms be to short to scratch. People just need to speak up verbally and with the loudest voice, purchasing power. Demand no copied logos (be it without logo or unique).
 

Sahsah

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I fail to see the major problem here. It's an expo and not allowing what would be 1:1 clones aka counterfeit items. I don't have a problem with them personally but this is a convention expo, why should this industry be different than any other one and allow the actual items to be showcased and sold and have someone else selling a counterfeit version for less at the expo? Try this at any other industry and report back on how well that plays out. Yes it should have been communicated sooner and better for vendors selling items there. Other than that, rather use influence and voices to demand no logo versions and/or unique logo versions and remove that part from the equation and people won't have a legitimate gripe. It's as simple as that. I don't care what you vape so long as it has got you off cigarettes. But that doesn't mean that it is okay to copy logos as well nor for those items to be sold at expos with those copied logos.
Why is it worse to copy the logo, in your opinion, than it is to copy the design and functionality of a mod?
 
"The conventional wisdom today is that copying is bad for creativity. If we allow people to copy new inventions, the thinking goes, no one will create them in the first place. Copycats do none of the work of developing new ideas but capture much of the benefit. That is the reason behind patents and copyrights: Copying destroys the incentive to innovate.

Except when it doesn't. There are many creative industries, like finance, that lack protection against copying (or did for a long time). A closer look at these fields shows that plenty of innovation takes place even when others are free to copy. There are many examples of successful industries that survive despite extensive copying. In fact, some even thrivebecause they are so open to copying.

Consider the fashion industry, which is virtually synonymous with the word "knockoff." Faviana, a New York fashion firm, makes its business model clear on its website. Faviana cheerfully replicates the work of major designers, providing what it calls "bling on a budget." As CEO Omid Moradi says on the site, "Ten minutes after any big awards telecast, the Faviana design team is already working on our newest 'celebrity look-alike gowns.' "
I cloned the above paragraphs from here
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10000872396390443991704577577433289673596 it is and article in the WSJ By
KAL RAUSTIALA and CHRIS SPRIGMAN from their book "The Knockoff Economy - How Imitation Sparks Innovation. They argue that imitation actually is very good for many industries. I bet if Kal and Chris were to analyze ours, that would come to the same conclusion.
 

Innovaper

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Why is it worse to copy the logo, in your opinion, than it is to copy the design and functionality of a mod?
There are times that is a problem as well but quite often a lot are quite straight forward. The logo is a problem to me in particular because it's just straight up counterfeit at that point. There's no 'inspired by' or any other rationale at play there and no need for it.
 

Dougw63

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They can buy authentic's in their price range. Does a person on disability need a Glas? Do they need the newest and hottest authentics? No. They can buy what they can afford and be giving money to the modders. Live withen your means but do it respectfully. And most of the clone people dont just buy one mod most if not all of them have 10+ setups that are unnecessary just get a nice setup or two.

So, for those who have quit analogs and still have to support themselves on say, disability; ( I wonder if you KNOW anyone on disability): they should scrape and save for that authentic rba or rda .99% of authentics are well out of the means of someone on disability! However, except for the more recent "ECC sponsored giveaways" supposed to be done mostly by the 4th of September, the majority of giveaways that aren't strictly juice are CLONES!
Your "argument" shows a gross lack of understanding! In fact, Sir ( I am using this term very loosely) the majority of those on disability as paid for by our gov't fall well below the poverty level, yet you think they should support the modder trying to make $200 Plus per item!
May your life always be perfect and you never have to just survive, let alone have to skip a 7 course meal!
 

Vlad1

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Vlad1 - And in that example even aside from joint ventures people were fine because Geo wasn't selling it with the Toyota Corolla branding nor the Chevy Prism and so forth. The main crux of this situation is the logos and their use. There is _no_ reason for them to carry those logos. It takes next to nothing or nothing for them to not even do any logos or a unique different logo. And I have to question why people get so angry at the notion of removing logos or unique different logos. The only real reason it could matter was for a scam artist to pawn off the clone as authentic. And for anyone doing that I hope the fleas of a thousand camels infest their crotches and their arms be to short to scratch. People just need to speak up verbally and with the loudest voice, purchasing power. Demand no copied logos (be it without logo or unique).

I agree with you completely. I wasn't necessarily addressing all the other assertions of counterfeit, logo's etc.. in the thread but of the OP's title "
ECC BANS ALL CLONES FROM BEING SOLD" which I didn't see anything saying a clone was ok at the event if it wasn't logo'd.
 

brandon

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So, for those who have quit analogs and still have to support themselves on say, disability; ( I wonder if you KNOW anyone on disability): they should scrape and save for that authentic rba or rda .99% of authentics are well out of the means of someone on disability! However, except for the more recent "ECC sponsored giveaways" supposed to be done mostly by the 4th of September, the majority of giveaways that aren't strictly juice are CLONES!
Your "argument" shows a gross lack of understanding! In fact, Sir ( I am using this term very loosely) the majority of those on disability as paid for by our gov't fall well below the poverty level, yet you think they should support the modder trying to make $200 Plus per item!
May your life always be perfect and you never have to just survive, let alone have to skip a 7 course meal!

I was unaware 16k a year wasn't below the poverty line
 

VaporJoe

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I agree with you completely. I wasn't necessarily addressing all the other assertions of counterfeit, logo's etc.. in the thread but of the OP's title "
ECC BANS ALL CLONES FROM BEING SOLD" which I didn't see anything saying a clone was ok at the event if it wasn't logo'd.

What is a counterfeit logo? Nemesis, Chi-You, and King mods are STOLEN logos.
 

vapingunited

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Honestly, I don't even see how they can ban people from selling them unless they were to require all products be approved prior to the convention which would mean months of preparation "certifying" every product to be sold there. Then they may have a case. Otherwise, it's just restraint of trade and/or discrimination. They \can\ make an argument against 'replicas' carrying trademarked logos and perhaps have enough weight if they hide behind the "we are trying to prevent a lawsuit" shroud, but if a product has no logo, and is not infringing on any patents (provably), then I don't think they have a leg to stand on. Even then, it's more up to the patent/trademark holder to determine if an infringement has been made, not ECC.

Just my opinion, of course.
 

UncleRJ

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Well, I am vaping on a Hana DNA 30 clone as I write this. And I have a EHPro Kayfun Lite Plus on it that I paid $38 for.

And the Kayfun Lite that I got from Angelcigs cost $19 and it works just as well as the other KFL clone.

I think a pattern is starting to form here.
 

moecat

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ECC must be really raising the roof this weekend. It's obvious by how dead this topic is.
 

CaFF

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I was unaware 16k a year wasn't below the poverty line

Who makes that?

I'm on SSI/SS and I get $741 a month. Rent is 61% of income for a 1BR in a ghetto neighborhood, then there is electricy (I have an electric stove,baseboard heat and pay for AC) and the landline phone and cheap Internet which is about $26/mo.

Try living on that.

I have no washer and dryer, no dishwasher, no credit cards, no car, no cable tv, no cell phone, don't leave the apt. much...none of that shit.

I'm also not some 300lb guy eating junk all day either. I'm lucky and can cook, so I make $140 in food last a month easy..

About once a month, I do a little shopping because it makes me feel like I'm still a part of the world. All within my means and my cat and bills come first. I'm thrifty as fuck and am very good at finding a deal whether it's thrift stores or on the Internet.

Vaping is about the only thing besides my cat, cooking and the Internet that I get to enjoy in life.
 
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kelli

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Who makes that?

I'm on SSI/SS and I get $741 a month. Rent is 61% of income for a 1BR in a ghetto neighborhood, then there is electric (baseboard heat) and the telephone.
Try living on that.

I have no car, no cable, no cell phone, don't leave the apt. much...none of that shit. I'm also not some 200lb guy eating junk all day either.
Vaping is about the only thing besides my cat that I get to enjoy in life.

and me ;)
 

Whiskey

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tumblr_n9ubmqTpZr1qzub73o2_250_zps0b84a6e2.gif
:D

I know for a fact who won this debate
 

vapingunited

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They can buy authentic's in their price range. Does a person on disability need a Glas? Do they need the newest and hottest authentics? No. They can buy what they can afford and be giving money to the modders. Live withen your means but do it respectfully. And most of the clone people dont just buy one mod most if not all of them have 10+ setups that are unnecessary just get a nice setup or two.

What's "unnecessary" to you may not be to others who can't afford an authentic, but would like a vape experience considerably better than a starter kit. Personally, I'm not a fan of those that copy logos, but if a design is not patented, what's your problem? Take the logo off and what possible complaint could you have? Non-patented designs are copied or used as "inspiration" every single day in just about every single industry.

If someone feels they have a "ground-shattering" innovation that ~needs~ to be protected, apply for a patent, otherwise step back and be happy that there are those less fortunate than some of us that can still have a similar opportunity...
 

Hobby Kid

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Untitled.png
Who cares as long as Your away from.the cancer Sticks For Fucks sakes.......

#hashtag #eatagoatdick #dogballs # fuck hashtags Lol


I see you didn't post the rest of the comment!

I think thats good they banned clones they are counterfiet products and they are stealing money from hardworking mod makers. Plz dont say price and complaining that they cost too much because in fact mods are a luxury if you cant afford it just save up i hate the fact that people complain that they are too expensive save up or make better career choices. #TeamAuthentic4Life
 

cherrycakes

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I did a very quick internet poll and found only one person in favor of banning all clones and punishing the manufactures responsible for offering them at reasonable prices.

images


well
Hitler wasn't all bad
He loved dogs. apparently
The more you know....
 

fuzzyone

Member For 4 Years
Pretty hot topic here. Good to see such open debates. So here is something for thought.

A few years back I had a car I bought from an auto auction for my son and it was a Geo Prizm. After replacing the break pads on it and finding the calipers, struts and a handful of other parts underneath labeled Toyota I began looking into it further. Guess what that car was a clone of a Toyota Corolla rebranded as a Geo. A few years later we bought a new car for my wife and it was a Chevy Prism guess what it was the same as the Toyota Corolla as well. So I know there were joint ventures involved in the making of each of these cars but in my mind its a close analogy being that most of the mods are being made by the same folks in China anyway.

Same basic car, different service / customer service, probably warranty, different options etc.
So who would buy what?

Toyota - The Elitist
Chevy - Avg. Joe
Geo - ME because if it is practically the same vehicle I'm not going to spend the extra for a name or brand or label.

The whole Geo line of vehicles were made in a Toyota plant...2 assembly lines side-by-side. I agree with you. I'm not going to pay extra "just because" a modder made it. Majority of the mods that we think come from the Philippines are made in China and always have been. China was under contract with the modder. Once the contract ran out, they hit the market.
 
I know it may be the wrong place but can someone tell me the backstory of this "other place" that you fine people keep making reference to? BTW I love this forun
 

Demoniacal

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I was unaware 16k a year wasn't below the poverty line
just WOW, I make almost twice that, and I'm still not gonna plop down hundreds more than something costs to make, just for some pretty logo or whatever, I'll buy a clone if I want to, personally, taking care of my children and household comes first, I scrape to buy all my vape stuff, and refuse to spend more than $30-50 on any one piece, especially if I could get the same quality for less with a clone, I'd rather have my money left over to say, maybe save for the next piece I want to try out. So stop being a pretentious prick, sell off your overpriced tubes, and move out of mommy's basement, then try to buy those expensive authentics you so love and worship. Asswipe.
 

Steam Powered

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Got word from a few vendors at ECC. They WERE NOT told before paying for their tables. It was a last minute email. One told me they didnt even know about it until they listened to Dimitri's Radio show.
So then if you do or don't like clones is not really the debate. It's the fact that ECC pulled a fast one taking the $ for tables and then making a radical rule change last minute. That's a rip off. Sounds like they need some new leadership over there.
 

vapingunited

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trade shows have every right. It is their event. silly questions really.

Silly answers you mean. Simply because they are the coordinators of an event, does not give them any rights to restrain trade, unless that trade is provably violating applicable laws or outside of the scope of the event (which it clearly is not). Violating copyrights and trademarks is another one to enforce on such a small level such as an event as well because since the Lanham Act, decided by the Federal Government in 1946 and the most common cited source of trademark protection today is a federal law, which basically means calling the local police isn't going to do much good and unless it's been in planning for the last 6-12 months, I highly doubt the feds are breaking down any doors for trademark violations today.

Having said that, I am a very strong supporter of no logos being used when creating a product based on another's design, however, I am in favor of making those designs more accessible through an open market system like ours currently is.
 

cherrycakes

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Silly answers you mean. Simply because they are the coordinators of an event, does not give them any rights to restrain trade, unless that trade is provably violating applicable laws or outside of the scope of the event (which it clearly is not). Violating copyrights and trademarks is another one to enforce on such a small level such as an event as well because since the Lanham Act, decided by the Federal Government in 1946 and the most common cited source of trademark protection today is a federal law, which basically means calling the local police isn't going to do much good and unless it's been in planning for the last 6-12 months, I highly doubt the feds are breaking down any doors for trademark violations today.

Having said that, I am a very strong supporter of no logos being used when creating a product based on another's design, however, I am in favor of making those designs more accessible through an open market system like ours currently is.


yea I can just see the cops rushing right over to arrest people for selling non-authentic mods.
 

Hobby Kid

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I was unaware 16k a year wasn't below the poverty line
Yes. Unfortunately it's very low. I don't know how someone on a disability allowance manages on that? You would be exempt from paying tax over here if you only earned that much working. And probably would need a supplement from the government.
 

VaporJoe

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15000 views to this thread... not bad for days work :D :D
 

VaporJoe

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vapingunited

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If this thread doesn't hit 100+ pages we're doing it wrong :p
 

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