Yes I agree when I started seven months ago I knew nothing and some shops took advantage of that ! Now I know better have become a vapor and it's a great hobby I love not being on nasty tobacco sticks after smoking for over 30 years , just got a lot of mods now and loving vap
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ECC BANS ALL CLONES FROM BEING SOLD
- Thread starter VaporJoe
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Innovaper
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Vlad1 - And in that example even aside from joint ventures people were fine because Geo wasn't selling it with the Toyota Corolla branding nor the Chevy Prism and so forth. The main crux of this situation is the logos and their use. There is _no_ reason for them to carry those logos. It takes next to nothing or nothing for them to not even do any logos or a unique different logo. And I have to question why people get so angry at the notion of removing logos or unique different logos. The only real reason it could matter was for a scam artist to pawn off the clone as authentic. And for anyone doing that I hope the fleas of a thousand camels infest their crotches and their arms be to short to scratch. People just need to speak up verbally and with the loudest voice, purchasing power. Demand no copied logos (be it without logo or unique).
Why is it worse to copy the logo, in your opinion, than it is to copy the design and functionality of a mod?
"The conventional wisdom today is that copying is bad for creativity. If we allow people to copy new inventions, the thinking goes, no one will create them in the first place. Copycats do none of the work of developing new ideas but capture much of the benefit. That is the reason behind patents and copyrights: Copying destroys the incentive to innovate.
Except when it doesn't. There are many creative industries, like finance, that lack protection against copying (or did for a long time). A closer look at these fields shows that plenty of innovation takes place even when others are free to copy. There are many examples of successful industries that survive despite extensive copying. In fact, some even thrivebecause they are so open to copying.
Consider the fashion industry, which is virtually synonymous with the word "knockoff." Faviana, a New York fashion firm, makes its business model clear on its website. Faviana cheerfully replicates the work of major designers, providing what it calls "bling on a budget." As CEO Omid Moradi says on the site, "Ten minutes after any big awards telecast, the Faviana design team is already working on our newest 'celebrity look-alike gowns.' "
I cloned the above paragraphs from here
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10000872396390443991704577577433289673596 it is and article in the WSJ By
KAL RAUSTIALA and CHRIS SPRIGMAN from their book "The Knockoff Economy - How Imitation Sparks Innovation. They argue that imitation actually is very good for many industries. I bet if Kal and Chris were to analyze ours, that would come to the same conclusion.
Except when it doesn't. There are many creative industries, like finance, that lack protection against copying (or did for a long time). A closer look at these fields shows that plenty of innovation takes place even when others are free to copy. There are many examples of successful industries that survive despite extensive copying. In fact, some even thrivebecause they are so open to copying.
Consider the fashion industry, which is virtually synonymous with the word "knockoff." Faviana, a New York fashion firm, makes its business model clear on its website. Faviana cheerfully replicates the work of major designers, providing what it calls "bling on a budget." As CEO Omid Moradi says on the site, "Ten minutes after any big awards telecast, the Faviana design team is already working on our newest 'celebrity look-alike gowns.' "
I cloned the above paragraphs from here
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10000872396390443991704577577433289673596 it is and article in the WSJ By
KAL RAUSTIALA and CHRIS SPRIGMAN from their book "The Knockoff Economy - How Imitation Sparks Innovation. They argue that imitation actually is very good for many industries. I bet if Kal and Chris were to analyze ours, that would come to the same conclusion.
Yeah, I just bought an MVPv2 from Ebay for about that. I like it fine.
IMO, it's the absolutely ridiculous MECH market this is mainly about. That is the Collector market.
Sure, there is the Wattage Wars...but nobody will care about it next year.
Innovaper
Member For 4 Years
There are times that is a problem as well but quite often a lot are quite straight forward. The logo is a problem to me in particular because it's just straight up counterfeit at that point. There's no 'inspired by' or any other rationale at play there and no need for it.
So, for those who have quit analogs and still have to support themselves on say, disability; ( I wonder if you KNOW anyone on disability): they should scrape and save for that authentic rba or rda .99% of authentics are well out of the means of someone on disability! However, except for the more recent "ECC sponsored giveaways" supposed to be done mostly by the 4th of September, the majority of giveaways that aren't strictly juice are CLONES!
Your "argument" shows a gross lack of understanding! In fact, Sir ( I am using this term very loosely) the majority of those on disability as paid for by our gov't fall well below the poverty level, yet you think they should support the modder trying to make $200 Plus per item!
May your life always be perfect and you never have to just survive, let alone have to skip a 7 course meal!
I agree with you completely. I wasn't necessarily addressing all the other assertions of counterfeit, logo's etc.. in the thread but of the OP's title "
ECC BANS ALL CLONES FROM BEING SOLD" which I didn't see anything saying a clone was ok at the event if it wasn't logo'd.
brandon
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I was unaware 16k a year wasn't below the poverty line
I love this forum.
VaporJoe
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What is a counterfeit logo? Nemesis, Chi-You, and King mods are STOLEN logos.
I honestly would still use a clone sans logo... in fact I would prefer them without
vapingunited
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Honestly, I don't even see how they can ban people from selling them unless they were to require all products be approved prior to the convention which would mean months of preparation "certifying" every product to be sold there. Then they may have a case. Otherwise, it's just restraint of trade and/or discrimination. They \can\ make an argument against 'replicas' carrying trademarked logos and perhaps have enough weight if they hide behind the "we are trying to prevent a lawsuit" shroud, but if a product has no logo, and is not infringing on any patents (provably), then I don't think they have a leg to stand on. Even then, it's more up to the patent/trademark holder to determine if an infringement has been made, not ECC.
Just my opinion, of course.
Just my opinion, of course.
I can vouch for that, being one of those ones on disability due to an hemohrragic stroke last year (almost to the day at this point)
I'm just saying my ehpro Panzer hits fucking awesome
IMO they only should change the name like cloned or generic medication ....
UncleRJ
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Well, I am vaping on a Hana DNA 30 clone as I write this. And I have a EHPro Kayfun Lite Plus on it that I paid $38 for.
And the Kayfun Lite that I got from Angelcigs cost $19 and it works just as well as the other KFL clone.
I think a pattern is starting to form here.
And the Kayfun Lite that I got from Angelcigs cost $19 and it works just as well as the other KFL clone.
I think a pattern is starting to form here.
Who makes that?
I'm on SSI/SS and I get $741 a month. Rent is 61% of income for a 1BR in a ghetto neighborhood, then there is electricy (I have an electric stove,baseboard heat and pay for AC) and the landline phone and cheap Internet which is about $26/mo.
Try living on that.
I have no washer and dryer, no dishwasher, no credit cards, no car, no cable tv, no cell phone, don't leave the apt. much...none of that shit.
I'm also not some 300lb guy eating junk all day either. I'm lucky and can cook, so I make $140 in food last a month easy..
About once a month, I do a little shopping because it makes me feel like I'm still a part of the world. All within my means and my cat and bills come first. I'm thrifty as fuck and am very good at finding a deal whether it's thrift stores or on the Internet.
Vaping is about the only thing besides my cat, cooking and the Internet that I get to enjoy in life.
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Wow! glad to see you can still spew some dribble! go troll somewhere else. your "arguments" don't hold water!
I second that.
kelli
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and me
Yes, I enjoy you as well. Some things are just priceless. ;-)
VaporJoe
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Yea, I guess LOL even trolls are considered "growth"Thank you, we aren't afraid of shaking it up a bit. It only grows by the day
vapingunited
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Thank you, we aren't afraid of shaking it up a bit. It only grows by the day
Good. It's nice to see an actual "open forum". Not like, you know, that other one
VaporJoe
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Hey.. trolls are a great gauge to show how effective you are.
vapingunited
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What's "unnecessary" to you may not be to others who can't afford an authentic, but would like a vape experience considerably better than a starter kit. Personally, I'm not a fan of those that copy logos, but if a design is not patented, what's your problem? Take the logo off and what possible complaint could you have? Non-patented designs are copied or used as "inspiration" every single day in just about every single industry.
If someone feels they have a "ground-shattering" innovation that ~needs~ to be protected, apply for a patent, otherwise step back and be happy that there are those less fortunate than some of us that can still have a similar opportunity...
I did a very quick internet poll and found only one person in favor of banning all clones and punishing the manufactures responsible for offering them at reasonable prices.
well
Hitler wasn't all bad
He loved dogs. apparently
The more you know....
fuzzyone
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The whole Geo line of vehicles were made in a Toyota plant...2 assembly lines side-by-side. I agree with you. I'm not going to pay extra "just because" a modder made it. Majority of the mods that we think come from the Philippines are made in China and always have been. China was under contract with the modder. Once the contract ran out, they hit the market.
I know it may be the wrong place but can someone tell me the backstory of this "other place" that you fine people keep making reference to? BTW I love this forun
Demoniacal
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just WOW, I make almost twice that, and I'm still not gonna plop down hundreds more than something costs to make, just for some pretty logo or whatever, I'll buy a clone if I want to, personally, taking care of my children and household comes first, I scrape to buy all my vape stuff, and refuse to spend more than $30-50 on any one piece, especially if I could get the same quality for less with a clone, I'd rather have my money left over to say, maybe save for the next piece I want to try out. So stop being a pretentious prick, sell off your overpriced tubes, and move out of mommy's basement, then try to buy those expensive authentics you so love and worship. Asswipe.
ECF - "we'll ban the fuck out of you"
Got a couple hours??
Ohhh ECF that place sucks sacks. Much prefer it over here 
Steam Powered
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So then if you do or don't like clones is not really the debate. It's the fact that ECC pulled a fast one taking the $ for tables and then making a radical rule change last minute. That's a rip off. Sounds like they need some new leadership over there.
vapingunited
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Silly answers you mean. Simply because they are the coordinators of an event, does not give them any rights to restrain trade, unless that trade is provably violating applicable laws or outside of the scope of the event (which it clearly is not). Violating copyrights and trademarks is another one to enforce on such a small level such as an event as well because since the Lanham Act, decided by the Federal Government in 1946 and the most common cited source of trademark protection today is a federal law, which basically means calling the local police isn't going to do much good and unless it's been in planning for the last 6-12 months, I highly doubt the feds are breaking down any doors for trademark violations today.
Having said that, I am a very strong supporter of no logos being used when creating a product based on another's design, however, I am in favor of making those designs more accessible through an open market system like ours currently is.
yea I can just see the cops rushing right over to arrest people for selling non-authentic mods.
Yes. Unfortunately it's very low. I don't know how someone on a disability allowance manages on that? You would be exempt from paying tax over here if you only earned that much working. And probably would need a supplement from the government.
Says clever Joe15000 views to this thread... not bad for days work
Your front page flash option is a great tool as well.
VaporJoe
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Says clever Joe
Your front page flash option is a great tool as well.
Yes flashing is always a good thing
vapingunited
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If this thread doesn't hit 100+ pages we're doing it wrong
LOLSays clever Joe
Your front page flash option is a great tool as well.
I must add your sunglasses have been a welcome distraction!