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FlavourArt Club ... formally known as the PureVapes thread

Huckleberried

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I really like that one. It reminds me of plums, but deeper. It's good with Vienna Cream, orange, cardamom... pretty versatile. HIC has a yummy Crostata posted, if not here, then on ecf, and Bryon made a Fig Newton that was pretty good. Where the heck's he been? We haven't seen him since he got married. Wait, nevermind, lol.
 

Smoky Blue

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Hear they are pretty good! I don't have any 26650 mods though.

CC.. i like mine.. but i dont use it that often.. I stick with my nemi and a beat up old igo w4..
but think I want a new mech and dripper now.. not sure.. I might wait till Christmas and find something.
 

Smoky Blue

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FA began reformulating flavorings to eliminate diacetyl in November, 2010. They basically finished (all but a few we now have in the e-cig line) by March, 2011. During that time, they posted the results of diacetyl tests on all flavorings that contained any. That list got shorter until it contained only their Kitchen flavors with their percents listed. Eventually they removed that data from their website. You can understand why if I give you an example.

Their Boiled Beef flavor was measured to have 0.00005% diacetyl. That is 5 parts per 10 million, which is 0.5 ppm. This was posted on their website from November 2010 until sometime after March 2011. Now, if that were a tasty-sounding flavoring like Croissant, and it was shown to have such a tiny amount of diacetyl, many people would blow off the tiny number and vape it anyway. Right? Heck, Vapor Bar is using higher concentrations in ready-to-vape, diluted eliquid as a selling point! I can see why they removed the list, to prevent misuse. I will not repost the list here when FA has chosen to remove the data from their website.

I have copies of the data posted on their website from 12-28-2010 (most flavors still containing diacetyl); January 24, 2011 (many e-cig flavors now reformulated); February 8, 2011 (mostly current kitchen flavors remaining), and reference to Max's statement that a couple others were cleared on 2/28/2011. Several of us saw Pistachio cleared of its previous 0.0015% quite recently. If you dig on Google, you can find the tables I referenced here.

One interesting observation regarding FA's testing is that they reported to the hundred-thousanth of a percent. Even a fraction of one part per million keeps the inhalation warning and remains a Kitchen only flavor. Any flavoring with ANY diacetyl (measured at least to parts per 10 million) keeps it OFF the e-cig line. All e-cig flavors measured 0 (parts per 10 million, at least).

I do not know WHY FA won't toot their own horn on this point!!


probably due to what has happened now.. and not including the fact that even with just the 4 ingredients in an ecig, no one can say for positive that vaping is safe. to slow or stop someone from being liable, is the best for any company in business, and the cost for testing for one or a million different items that could be potentially harmful. after all, smoking has been around forever.. ecigs are still after under 20 years, a new frontier.. many people think they can open shops, or become a mixer and make thousands of dollars.. some do and some don't.. but to be on the safe side of things is a hard call.

for now, i plan on staying neutral on this.

I know since most are untested, which flavor companies i stick with, and I watch how i do my herbals.. all i can say is for us all to please be as safe as we can possibly be.

I'm thinking about asking them if they would consider posting a list of the percentages for their e-cig line in light of this most recent diacetyl scare and the whole testing craze going on right now. Do you think they are afraid of some kind of liability or something if there is any irregularity in their production process? I wouldn't want them to think I have some kind of ulterior motives or whatever.

@RyGon You can ask.. however, if they had wanted it public knowledge, they are capable of posting up or having an area with all the tests and improvements done. See, that is the thing on companies.. they have the right to share or not.. unless it becomes mandatory. Of course, no company wants to be liable.. think on that. They are within their rights, for now.

I only see a few talking on testing and chemicals.. that may or may not change.. Public awareness.
 

wllmc

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I think the whole thing is like HIC said. to them it doesnt matter the percentage of it thats in it, if it is in a flavoring in any amount at all it goes straight to kitchen magic period. even the smallest percent and its kitchen . they dont want people saying oh its only .000025 % so it could be safe and probably is safe diluted from .000025 into a juice and vape it daily for 5 years and end up sick after that. the percentage is really kinda irrelevant really. its posted clearly everywhere. e cig line safe to vape, kitchen line not safe to vape
I'm thinking about asking them if they would consider posting a list of the percentages for their e-cig line in light of this most recent diacetyl scare and the whole testing craze going on right now. Do you think they are afraid of some kind of liability or something if there is any irregularity in their production process? I wouldn't want them to think I have some kind of ulterior motives or whatever.
 

lkerr406

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I just got to weigh in here . . . I am all about informed choices, but I am about choices. I am reaching the level of digust with the public wanting "big brother" to protect them. We were never given any form of transparancy by the cigarette industry, why do we expect vaping to be different.
I knew full well cigarettes were killing me. I had empirical data and personal experience. I chose to smoke 30 to 40 cigarettes a day anyway. Does that make me a DUMBASS, yes indeedy. I am not going to sue anyone because of it. If you have a problem with what may or may not be in your e-juice, don't vape.
The bottom line for me. If I want to be a DUMBASS that is my GOD given right. When you ask for protection from yourself then you are asking to be told what to do and when to do it. That is not for me.

Sorry I will step down from my soap box now.
 

wllmc

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well thats the whole point of vaping . harm reduction . right ? I think all vapors made a conscious decision that cigarettes were killing them and we all wanted to live longer. if you dont really care whats in your vape , hell you may as well smoke cigarettes still. we expect vaping to be different for my above reason. harm reduction. I smoked a pack a day + for 21 yrs. since I was 12 years old. I would like to live to see my youngest child's 12th birthday lol. and to those of us who mix our own juice it is very important whats in it. rember the guy putting white food coloring in hus juice? there have to be standards and transparency. after that we can all make informed decisions on what to vape and what not to vape. I still vape custard notes n moderation but that is my decision. but you have to remember vaping is harm reduction. I dont DIY to save money. I do it for my health and knowing I am the one who decided what went into my mix, not some guy in his kitchen with 20 dogs with fleas and internet to sell juice from. If I didnt care what I put into my lungs I would still be smoking my non filters....... I think the argument in the past couple days has been between people who buy juice and could careless and people who DIY juice who know the facts and do care. 2 different worlds.
 

lkerr406

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well thats the whole point of vaping . harm reduction . right ? I think all vapors made a conscious decision that cigarettes were killing them and we all wanted to live longer. if you dont really care whats in your vape , hell you may as well smoke cigarettes still. we expect vaping to be different for my above reason. harm reduction. I smoked a pack a day + for 21 yrs. since I was 12 years old. I would like to live to see my youngest child's 12th birthday lol. and to those of us who mix our own juice it is very important whats in it. rember the guy putting white food coloring in hus juice? there have to be standards and transparency. after that we can all make informed decisions on what to vape and what not to vape. I still vape custard notes n moderation but that is my decision. but you have to remember vaping is harm reduction. I dont DIY to save money. I do it for my health and knowing I am the one who decided what went into my mix, not some guy in his kitchen with 20 dogs with fleas and internet to sell juice from. If I didnt care what I put into my lungs I would still be smoking my non filters....... I think the argument in the past couple days has been between people who buy juice and could careless and people who DIY juice who know the facts and do care. 2 different worlds.

Exactly my sentimets. Vote with your pocketbook. If a manufacture can't or won't satisfy your needs, move on. We know it is out there, we choose to vape. I think vaping is far better than cigarettes, I am not naive enough to think vaping is a healthy practice. My fear is this will become enough of an issue that "big brother" will step in to protect us from ourselves.
Forget who said it but, Nothing is worse than the tryanny done to you in the name of your own good.
 

wllmc

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Exactly my sentimets. Vote with your pocketbook. If a manufacture can't or won't satisfy your needs, move on. We know it is out there, we choose to vape. I think vaping is far better than cigarettes, I am not naive enough to think vaping is a healthy practice. My fear is this will become enough of an issue that "big brother" will step in to protect us from ourselves.
Forget who said it but, Nothing is worse than the tryanny done to you in the name of your own good.
agreed :)
 

wllmc

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soon enough there will be another topic for everyone to debate. lol.
 

RyGon

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Some of you seem to think I'm pushing for some sort of regulation or trying to pressure FA to disclose something they don't want to. Thats not my point at all. I just think they have done more than probably anyone to address the concerns people have been having lately and its difficult to find that out even if you are looking for it. Lots of companies make the diacetyl free statement but with FA it actually means something.They should be taking advantage of it.
 

Smoky Blue

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and
soon enough there will be another topic for everyone to debate. lol.

is why i think I really!!! need to stay neutral.. no offense to anyone..

but until they say can we prove it is "all safe" then debates like this will pop up..
people will get their feelings hurt
or assume a lot
things will be said you wont be able to take back
and a lot of people will become heart broken..

I'd rather keep my friends... and my vape! :)
 

RyGon

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and


is why i think I really!!! need to stay neutral.. no offense to anyone..

but until they say can we prove it is "all safe" then debates like this will pop up..
people will get their feelings hurt
or assume a lot
things will be said you wont be able to take back
and a lot of people will become heart broken..

I'd rather keep my friends... and my vape! :)
Personally I think the debate is healthy and necessary. If we can't work things like this out within the community then we have proven the over regulators point for them. One thing I learned in art school was those students that got all butt hurt during critique probably weren't going to make it. Critique and diversity of opinion are requirements for success in a self regulated environment.
 

CurlyxCracker

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CC.. i like mine.. but i dont use it that often.. I stick with my nemi and a beat up old igo w4..
but think I want a new mech and dripper now.. not sure.. I might wait till Christmas and find something.
I have 3 of the most recent innovative drippers. Magma, Plume Veil, and the Big Dripper. I just got the Big Dripper yesterday haven't really messed with it much but I see potential, flavor is good. Out of the other two, Plume Veil is absolutely my favorite. I like the magma a lot but I like the airy draw and flavor with it wide open and chamber reduced is out of this world. I also have a Gaia and omega. Gaia doesn't get any love not because it's bad, but because it's not amazing. Omega is housing a wickless build for testing.
 

RyGon

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I have 3 of the most recent innovative drippers. Magma, Plume Veil, and the Big Dripper. I just got the Big Dripper yesterday haven't really messed with it much but I see potential, flavor is good. Out of the other two, Plume Veil is absolutely my favorite. I like the magma a lot but I like the airy draw and flavor with it wide open and chamber reduced is out of this world. I also have a Gaia and omega. Gaia doesn't get any love not because it's bad, but because it's not amazing. Omega is housing a wickless build for testing.
I do love my Plume Veil.
 

Vangrl

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I appreciate what you're doing Rygon, and I think of all threads this is the best one to broach the subject, as I'm pretty sure most of us are on this thread because we were looking for a healthier alternative to pre-made (notice I didn't say cigarettes).
I've never seen a bad test done on a F.A flavour, and I believe the much more experienced than me when they say "they can't taste it", but I do get into debates often when others point out that there are no lab tests to prove it.
I do understand HIC's reasoning behind why they may not, but it seems to me that the pluses outweigh the minuses for offering the info. If every one of their e-cig line flavours are 100% A&D free AND they offered supporting lab tests, one would think that they'd attract new juice manufacturers that would solely use F.A, and other existing vendors would all gradually just move over to them, at least for the majority of their concentrates, and for sure for the flavours that tested positive with other flavour vendors

It drives me crazy how any talk about this stuff in every forum or social media site ALWAYS turns into such an ugly, obnoxious fighting match. This and clones, clone wars are even worse.
 

CurlyxCracker

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Personally I think the debate is healthy and necessary. If we can't work things like this out within the community then we have proven the over regulators point for them. One thing I learned in art school was those students that got all butt hurt during critique probably weren't going to make it. Critique and diversity of opinion are requirements for success in a self regulated environment.
Normally I'd agree, I actually do mostly. When people start debating on the inrerwebs over products they've purchased, it's a free for all. Everyone wants to defend their purchase. I've been a part of too many pre orders to see someone ALWAYS has a different perspective. We're testing this market and these devices and liquids. I don't think you're for government regulation because you're not seeing the potential tax dollars. I will say in a perfect world, regulation wouldn't be all that bad, for example the illegal drug trade doesn't regulate and we end up with people ingesting all kinds of harmful things besides the drug itself. Joe smo down the street could whip up a batch of e liquid with antifreeze and sell it on his site and people would probably buy it as he doesn't have to disclose what's in it or manufacturer it with any guide lines. I'm not saying it needs to be regulated by the GOVERNMENT, but regulation isn't all bad...

Edit: By "seeing" I mean you're not gaining financially. No cash in your pocket. Which is a primary reason for GOVERNMENT regulations.
 

RyGon

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Normally I'd agree, I actually do mostly. When people start debating on the inrerwebs over products they've purchased, it's a free for all. Everyone wants to defend their purchase. I've been a part of too many pre orders to see someone ALWAYS has a different perspective. We're testing this market and these devices and liquids. I don't think you're for government regulation because you're not seeing the potential tax dollars. I will say in a perfect world, regulation wouldn't be all that bad, for example the illegal drug trade doesn't regulate and we end up with people ingesting all kinds of harmful things besides the drug itself. Joe smo down the street could whip up a batch of e liquid with antifreeze and sell it on his site and people would probably buy it as he doesn't have to disclose what's in it or manufacturer it with any guide lines. I'm not saying it needs to be regulated by the GOVERNMENT, but regulation isn't all bad...

Edit: By "seeing" I mean you're not gaining financially. No cash in your pocket. Which is a primary reason for GOVERNMENT regulations.
I will admit that I am an idealist in general but in real world terms we all know that this industry is only going to become more and more regulated in the future. That is why we need to do our part to hold off over-regulation. As far as taxes I understand that the government has become addicted to tobacco taxes. I think we can assume they are going to fight to protect that revenue even at the expense of our health. But aside from the political issues, Flavourart has spent the cash and put in the effort to provide the industry with a well researched, conscientious product but very few people even know anything about them. Let alone enough to distinguish them from everyone else that has jumped on the diacytel free train lately.
 

HeadInClouds

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Flavourart has spent the cash and put in the effort to provide the industry with a well researched, conscientious product but very few people even know anything about them. Let alone enough to distinguish them from everyone else that has jumped on the diacytel free train lately.

When I started DIY, FA flavors weren't a very popular subject on the US boards. I think their tobaccos were, but not the rest. FA was considered expensive, hard to find, difficult to mix with (too strong), weird flavors. Their image has changed, IMO, and they've become more mainstream as more vendors sell them - and we keep posting recipes all over the place. :) If Wizard Labs sold them, FA would surely be as popular as the others - based on flavor alone.
 

RyGon

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When I started DIY, FA flavors weren't a very popular subject on the US boards. I think their tobaccos were, but not the rest. FA was considered expensive, hard to find, difficult to mix with (too strong), weird flavors. Their image has changed, IMO, and they've become more mainstream as more vendors sell them - and we keep posting recipes all over the place. :) If Wizard Labs sold them, FA would surely be as popular as the others - based on flavor alone.
Mr. Wizard seems like he would be all over FA. I wonder why he doesn't carry them.
 

CurlyxCracker

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When I started DIY, FA flavors weren't a very popular subject on the US boards. I think their tobaccos were, but not the rest. FA was considered expensive, hard to find, difficult to mix with (too strong), weird flavors. Their image has changed, IMO, and they've become more mainstream as more vendors sell them - and we keep posting recipes all over the place. :) If Wizard Labs sold them, FA would surely be as popular as the others - based on flavor alone.
FA has strict criteria for rebottling their flavorings, that may be why some don't carry it
 

AmandaD

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So the chemists at Wizard Labs can't handle what the dude at PureVapes does?

There's probably been no need for them to bother - I don't think the demand was there previously, and they do sell a lot of TFA!
 

CurlyxCracker

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So the chemists at Wizard Labs can't handle what the dude at PureVapes does?
No not at all what I was inferring. Wasn't speaking specific about WL. Just that there are manufacturers out there that don't have hoops to jump through, may be more appealing to small businesses.
 

RyGon

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There's probably been no need for them to bother - I don't think the demand was there previously, and they do sell a lot of TFA!
No not at all what I was inferring. Wasn't speaking specific about WL. Just that there are manufacturers out there that don't have hoops to jump through, may be more appealing to small businesses.
Ah ok, I get it. Profit margins could be much higher with TFA.
 

wllmc

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ok so somewhere and I dont even remember where now but we were talking about how ecigexpress was 25 cents cheaper than bull city but bull city had original packaging and what was the better deal. I'll tell you the difference. I ordered from both places the same day and they arrived on the same day. my ecig package was full of freakin flavoring. bought 3 bottles. 2 of them leaked at least 2 ml of each inside the bag. I still cant get the smell off me lol. every single time man. .........bull citys package contained 6 bottles of flavoring. 4 original flavor art flavors and 2 of his bottled ones. not a single drop in the bag. and this is also consistent. every single time. I will gladly pay 25 cents extra . well done @Roundhouse
 

AmandaD

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ok so somewhere and I dont even remember where now but we were talking about how ecigexpress was 25 cents cheaper than bull city but bull city had original packaging and what was the better deal. I'll tell you the difference. I ordered from both places the same day and they arrived on the same day. my ecig package was full of freakin flavoring. bought 3 bottles. 2 of them leaked at least 2 ml of each inside the bag. I still cant get the smell off me lol. every single time man. .........bull citys package contained 6 bottles of flavoring. 4 original flavor art flavors and 2 of his bottled ones. not a single drop in the bag. and this is also consistent. every single time. I will gladly pay 25 cents extra . well done @Roundhouse

Very good point - for 25 cents it's not worth the hassle. And it's freakin' hard to get the plastic off those ExigExpress bottles sometimes LOL
 

wllmc

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Very good point - for 25 cents it's not worth the hassle. And it's freakin' hard to get the plastic off those ExigExpress bottles sometimes LOL
hahaha right !!!!!! god dang bout had to chew it off as it oozed flavor all over. then had to wash them. then heart broken over all that sweet flavor missing. lol. bull citys I opened it and went straight from the mail bag to the flavor box.
 

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hahaha right !!!!!! god dang bout had to chew it off as it oozed flavor all over. then had to wash them. then heart broken over all that sweet flavor missing. lol. bull citys I opened it and went straight from the mail bag to the flavor box.

Yep, those ecigexpress 10ml bottles leak into the bag every single time, without fail. They just don't screw on the lids well before they add that annoying and ineffective shrink-wrap over of the top. Sometimes they have killer sales or something nobody else has in stock, so I order anyway. But the box stays closed until I have the time/space to deal with the inevitable mess. Oh - the outside of the bottle stays permanently sticky from the adhesive in the wrap, too.
 

CurlyxCracker

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ok so somewhere and I dont even remember where now but we were talking about how ecigexpress was 25 cents cheaper than bull city but bull city had original packaging and what was the better deal. I'll tell you the difference. I ordered from both places the same day and they arrived on the same day. my ecig package was full of freakin flavoring. bought 3 bottles. 2 of them leaked at least 2 ml of each inside the bag. I still cant get the smell off me lol. every single time man. .........bull citys package contained 6 bottles of flavoring. 4 original flavor art flavors and 2 of his bottled ones. not a single drop in the bag. and this is also consistent. every single time. I will gladly pay 25 cents extra . well done @Roundhouse
Did you notice the change in 6ml bottles??? Cap also has original bottles now! I've never had a bottle leak from BC, I had one that had a bit of flavoring on the label, I assume from filling because there was none in the bag. Just got my BC order today, what to mix, what to mix... I went with Cap juicy orange, FAs version just wasn't "bam" enough for me. I got like 9-10 new FA flavors and couple sale items as well. Sale items are cheap enough it doesn't matter if I was looking for them or not. Btw, I think Bull City has the most in your face inhalation warnings compared to anywhere else, anywhere else like that?
 

CurlyxCracker

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hahaha right !!!!!! god dang bout had to chew it off as it oozed flavor all over. then had to wash them. then heart broken over all that sweet flavor missing. lol. bull citys I opened it and went straight from the mail bag to the flavor box.
What do you use? I'm about to go shoe box, I have no room in current containers....
 

wllmc

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Did you notice the change in 6ml bottles??? Cap also has original bottles now! I've never had a bottle leak from BC, I had one that had a bit of flavoring on the label, I assume from filling because there was none in the bag. Just got my BC order today, what to mix, what to mix... I went with Cap juicy orange, FAs version just wasn't "bam" enough for me. I got like 9-10 new FA flavors and couple sale items as well. Sale items are cheap enough it doesn't matter if I was looking for them or not. Btw, I think Bull City has the most in your face inhalation warnings compared to anywhere else, anywhere else like that?
actually no. I didnt get anything new this time, just refill stuff so it just put it in the box. just looked tho. they are thicker bottles ????? man these are pretty nice. I do like the warning labels also on bull citys page. you cant miss it. I bought a big bottle of that juice orange also. came in a glass vile from bull city. that is a very good orange. I cant decide wich one I like better caps or FA. caps has a stronger flavor and really good but not as a quality of a vape as FA. if that makes any sense. I find a lot of fruit flavors by flavor art are not as powerful as other brands but its really what makes it better also. just mix them together :)
 

CurlyxCracker

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actually no. I didnt get anything new this time, just refill stuff so it just put it in the box. just looked tho. they are thicker bottles ????? man these are pretty nice. I do like the warning labels also on bull citys page. you cant miss it. I bought a big bottle of that juice orange also. came in a glass vile from bull city. that is a very good orange. I cant decide wich one I like better caps or FA. caps has a stronger flavor and really good but not as a quality of a vape as FA. if that makes any sense. I find a lot of fruit flavors by flavor art are not as powerful as other brands but its really what makes it better also. just mix them together :)
They are a hard plastic like the FA bottles. I had an issue with a few of the softer ones, like the new bottles a lot!
 

wllmc

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What do you use? I'm about to go shoe box, I have no room in current containers....
I have a tackle box and 2 other like christmas box things. and this thread spool box for the pure vapes bottles. I still have a large stash of those. anything I just buy a little of and would never use 10 ml of before it goes bad I still like to buy from purevapes. then jacked a whole kitchen cabinet in the kitchen for flavors and all the other stuff lol
 

Huckleberried

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Create a ticket with ECX and they'll replace the leaky ones at no extra cost or hassle. More work, but free mls, right?


Sent from my stupid iPhone because I don't have an Android.
 

Smoky Blue

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i dunno.. the small flavors I have had to pick up, I normally just grab the 30ml or larger..
saves on reordering so soon too..

and I have to give ecx props for the recipes they toss out from users too.. in the newsletters and blog areas :)
not sure if there is any other vendor that does that, but its a nice touch..
 

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I needed to place 3 separate orders for 3 different flavors!!...kinda sucked but i need to make HIC Cider! :) Bull City (Clove), WL (BS Extra) and some place I never heard of eJuice4u.com (NF Ginger). I loaded up at bull city with about 18 new FA flavors and a few pineapples to try and grabbed an extra liter of VG from eJuice4u.com so I didn't feel so bad about the 5.99 flat shipping. I should be all set for a while now!! (famous last words...)
 

AmandaD

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What do you use? I'm about to go shoe box, I have no room in current containers....

Boxes from Joann's Fabrics: (they have dividers that you can't see, so e.g. the As are in one section and so on! They're much bigger than they look, and you can just stack em up!
20140920_145410.jpg
 

cherrycakes

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yea even walmart will have like storage/craft containers. I used to use mine for beads and stuff but now it's all flavorings lol
 

RyGon

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I don't know if you guys have seen all these. The first one was just posted two weeks ago. The second is from eight months ago and the third is the clearstream video from two years ago.
 

Smoky Blue

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i have the plastic shoe boxes and keep them as collections..
fruits in one and so on..
I also keep my shoe boxes in Styrofoam Coolers..
when I open a flavor collection, it tends to smell the house up pretty nice :)
 

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