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ORCHID MODIFICATION THREAD

alex31804

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Thanks I'll try both out, but to be 100% honest I'll probably try @DoctorIdiot 's method first since I'm using rayon too(I share the good feelings on it BTW). Thanks for the input as well!


*update I've used @DoctorIdiot 's method and it cured my problems. Again I'm using rayon, I've ran two tanks through (can you say nicotine buzz? Lol) and so far so good. No dry hits and no leaks, thanks again brotha!
 
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TheWestPole

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For now, I leave you with this expertly designed visual representation of my orchid wicks:

/=mm=\

The [mm] is the coil, the [=] is the small straight portion of the wick coming out of the coil, and the slashies represent the angle cut i make on each of the edges. i tuck those thinned out tail tips into the channels, like so:

|'|

... so beautiful, i know. :D

Love your emoticoils and emotiwicks! Diagram perfect, I think. |'| looks proportionally just fine too. :)
 
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TheWestPole

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Don't need to put wick in channels. Try short blunt tails ending right at top of channels. Works carefree every build for me.

That post was a bit rushed and imprecise. Should read "don't need to put wick down into channels." That is, just enough to catch the tails to keep them in place, but not deep into the channels, which as @DoctorIdiot points out can choke the flow. I suspect he and I are ending up with very similar results after the wicking has been working for a little while.

I just pulled the chamber off of one I have been using for a while. It has already gone through at least 30ml of juice performing perfectly. Neither gurgling or burnt hits.

PA251828 edit.jpg PA251829 edit.jpg PA251830 edit.jpg

These tails were all cut blunt at 5mm, then coaxed down wet to catch the top of the channels. After vaping for a while, strands tend to creep down the channels a bit. Looking at this after 30ml of use, it seem pretty much like what @DoctorIdiot suggests to begin with. So I think we are more or less confirming each other's results.

BTW, this V1 build is 28 gauge kanthal, 1.5mm ID, coils around 6 weeks old (my original build). It is wicked with cellucotton rayon. Yes indeed, I also use j-cotton with very subtle or very low percentage flavors. ;)
 
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Midniteoyl

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I did mine in Jap cotton, but this time instead of putting little tails into the channels, I simply curled them back under.. heading towards the air holes... just finished my 3rd tank of NET with no dry hits/flooding/leaking...
 

TheWestPole

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I did mine in Jap cotton, but this time instead of putting little tails into the channels, I simply curled them back under.. heading towards the air holes... just finished my 3rd tank of NET with no dry hits/flooding/leaking...

Awesome, another proven style. :) I can imagine that working very well, holding the juice away from the air holes.

Demonstrated yet again, Orchid is one user-friendly power plant! :D
 

calibrae

Member For 4 Years
Hi, first post here !
I bought a v2 couple weeks ago, and I happened to own a kayfun extension tube at the moment. I just slapped it ontop of the orchid chimney, and added a middle tank and a tank ring sections from a regular kayfun.
The tank holds about 6 mils now.
Using a kayfun top cap, the couple chimneys are secured enough to fill it Squape style. I can remove the deck and the chamber stays in place. Pretty handy to rebuild, or fiddle with the wick.
I swear, this rta even made me disdain my Gus Estia - tho I didn't say shelf it. That would be mean.

Ordered a v4 for the longer chimney and a nano kit. I sure wish I could find some extension tube.
 

muth

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Awesome, another proven style. :) I can imagine that working very well, holding the juice away from the air holes.

Demonstrated yet again, Orchid is one user-friendly power plant! :D
I'm having leakage problems. Backed off the filler screw and I think that helped. But getting leaks from top. Looks like the chimney is lined up though. What the hell else could it be? Also, why can't this be filled from the top as well? Excuse my ignorance, I'm used to RDAs. I saw your wicking technique and it's the same as many others but then I saw Native Juice Vapers and it's totally different. Have you seen it and, if so, what do you think?
 

TheWestPole

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I'm having leakage problems. Backed off the filler screw and I think that helped. But getting leaks from top. Looks like the chimney is lined up though. What the hell else could it be? Also, why can't this be filled from the top as well? Excuse my ignorance, I'm used to RDAs. I saw your wicking technique and it's the same as many others but then I saw Native Juice Vapers and it's totally different. Have you seen it and, if so, what do you think?

Leaking from the chimney/top cap seal? I've had out of spec. o-rings that didn't seal well. Have you checked it, or replaced with the spare? Or is the leak elsewhere?

You can top fill. Kayfun method works, covering air holes (and q-tip in chimney) or it can get messy.

I don't know NJV method. Would you post it?
 

muth

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Yes to 1st question. I think I may have tightened too much and compressed the o-ring. But then maybe I should try the replacement spare like you said.
I'll try to post that wick. It's on his you tube vid. He's using cotton and doesn't run tails down towards the channels. It's more like a big, cotton mess on top.
 

DoctorIdiot

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That post was a bit rushed and imprecise. Should read "don't need to put wick down into channels." That is, just enough to catch the tails to keep them in place, but not deep into the channels, which as @DoctorIdiot points out can choke the flow. I suspect he and I are ending up with very similar results after the wicking has been working for a little while.

I just pulled the chamber off of one I have been using for a while. It has already gone through at least 30ml of juice performing perfectly. Neither gurgling or burnt hits.

These tails were all cut blunt at 5mm, then coaxed down wet to catch the top of the channels. After vaping for a while, strands tend to creep down the channels a bit. Looking at this after 30ml of use, it seem pretty much like what @DoctorIdiot suggests to begin with. So I think we are more or less confirming each other's results.

BTW, this V1 build is 28 gauge kanthal, 1.5mm ID, coils around 6 weeks old (my original build). It is wicked with cellucotton rayon. Yes indeed, I also use j-cotton with very subtle or very low percentage flavors. ;)

that is uncannily like my own wicks, so yes, we were indeed talking across each other :p

Thanks I'll try both out, but to be 100% honest I'll probably try @DoctorIdiot 's method first since I'm using rayon too(I share the good feelings on it BTW). Thanks for the input as well!


*update I've used @DoctorIdiot 's method and it cured my problems. Again I'm using rayon, I've ran two tanks through (can you say nicotine buzz? Lol) and so far so good. No dry hits and no leaks, thanks again brotha!

hey, no problem! and yea, you really gotta back off that nicotine once you get this thing roaring. especially if you are testing a new coil whilst driving on the DC beltway (ask me how i know this :eek: ). And you know, i don't know if it's just my imagination, but i swear it seems like i actually have to change out my orchid rayon wicks a hell of a lot less often than i change out kayfun rayon wicks for my wife or for me-prior-to-the-great-orchid-awakening. i think that once you get this thing working, it's almost like you just have a perfect juice-to-vapor conversion system and all the moving parts just work.

i've always felt like my various devices were just snapshots of vaping pleasure. i'd get my kayfun built just so and i'd wick it elegantly, juice it up, and it would be wonderful, but i would know that it was temporary, and in the back of my head i was always just waiting. waiting for the hit that i took that was dry, or burnt, or gurgley, or just plain off. it was always a better experience than the ego clearomizers and the cartos and the gas station glowsticks, to be sure. but just like those systems, it was hard to really relax into the experience because i knew the end was always near. drippers were, obviously even more temporary. I got a little more comfortable with them because of the sheer flexibility, and I still use them religiously for testing my DIY juices, but they are very much for-purpose devices. They are awesome, and crazy useful, but hardly my idea of a relaxing vape.

but these orchids... it's just a whole different world for me. i love building them and playing with the wicks and all that, believe me... but once i get one set up, it's just pure vaping bliss. I change the wick when I change flavors. I change the coil when i get some cool new wire in. other than that, i just pick up any of the mechs or DNAs on my desk, press the appropriate button, and smile while i continue doing whatever it was i was doing. I'd use the word "zen" here, but i'm neither 19 nor stoned.

this got wildly off-topic, so i shall cease and scroll back up to see if there was anything else i'd intended to respond to.

Hi, first post here !
I bought a v2 couple weeks ago, and I happened to own a kayfun extension tube at the moment. I just slapped it ontop of the orchid chimney, and added a middle tank and a tank ring sections from a regular kayfun.
The tank holds about 6 mils now.
Using a kayfun top cap, the couple chimneys are secured enough to fill it Squape style. I can remove the deck and the chamber stays in place. Pretty handy to rebuild, or fiddle with the wick.
I swear, this rta even made me disdain my Gus Estia - tho I didn't say shelf it. That would be mean.

Ordered a v4 for the longer chimney and a nano kit. I sure wish I could find some extension tube.
Welcome! What exactly do you mean by some extension tube?

i too am very curious about this. I clicked the link and looked at the picture of the said "extension tube" for quite some time before coming to the conclusion that I have no idea what it is, how it works, or how it relates to the orchid. at first glance, it appears to simply be an entire kayfun chimney, but that simply can't be what we're talking about here. but i sure would like to know what we are talking about, because it seems potentially awesome.

Yes to 1st question. I think I may have tightened too much and compressed the o-ring. But then maybe I should try the replacement spare like you said.
I'll try to post that wick. It's on his you tube vid. He's using cotton and doesn't run tails down towards the channels. It's more like a big, cotton mess on top.

i tried to find this wick, but apparently my google-fu is weak, and so i remain lost. but i have seen people do "cotton cloud" type builds on the orchid. I've never attempted it and almost certainly never will as rayon does not take kindly to "clouds" anyway. i have done a "top wick" style build on an orchid, using rayon. I wicked it just as i usually do (see my amazing emoticoils (what an fantastic word, @TheWestPole) or photos from the post up thar ^) but made the tails EXTRA sparse, and then laid a "flavor wick" sorta thing on top and tucked the chopsuey'd tail from that into the channel too. it was horrible. it looked super cool, but airflow was choked, juice just didn't vaporize as cleanly, gunk built up within hours (and i am usually gunk-free for weeks on my orchids) and then the whole damn thing went up in flames. well ok, the wicks burnt and i inhaled was tasted like pure charcoal. but still.

All that is not to say that his particular build, or cotton cloud type builds in general would work poorly. rayon and cotton are very different, naturally. but the visual problem i've always had with those types of builds is that they remind me of that choked, fiery mess that I tried, and i just can't bring myself to believe that those would be dramatically better. Rayon (and probably j-cotton) through the coils and sparsely into the channels acts like a smooth buttery firehose of juice, straight from the tank to your coil. it's like emptying your vaping budget directly onto a blazing inferno and watching the remains billow away into the fog.

i think perhaps it's time for bed. i'm waxing entirely too poetic for a thread about a blasted RDA, no matter how fervently ecstatic I may be about it.
 

muth

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Member For 5 Years
I'm actually vaping on a v4 as I type.

I got a v1 right when they came out (still vaping, .4ohm twisted) a v3 about two weeks ago when they first starting appearing on ebay (absolute perfection, .5ohm macro coils) and now i have two of these v4s.

they each have their issues, but each share the same core strength: ridiculously great vapor production, airflow, and flavor. oh, and they drink juice like a highschool kid at a kegger.

my impressions so far:

orchid v1: introduced me to an entire new world of vaping bliss. dropped my kayfuns, nautilus, and even my drippers. this became my main, and my fogger 4.1 and 4.4 became my backups. but oh my god how i hate those screws. mine came with the ULTRA weak hex screws that all stripped instantly. I struggle to get the thing built and STAY built. I finally took to twisting 26 gauge kanthal just to give the screws something to bite into. this build works alright, so long as i'm gentle when changing out wicks. vapes like a dream, just a complete pain to maintain. I replaced the top cap with that fasttech top-fill, which greatly enhanced the overall usability.

orchid v3: WOW. it's amazing what REAL ACTUAL SCREWS can do for an atomizer. this thing is rock solid. i've put several different builds on it, not because it needed rebuilding, but just because it's a joy to rebuild on after weeks of struggling with my v1 (not to mention my foggers. who the hell builds an atty without post holes??). capacity is about .3 ml less than the v1 (thanks to the inner structure of the included "nano" style tank) but i don't notice. i fill up all my orchids once a day anyway, so it's fine. everything else about the vape is identical, and therefore amazing. this is what vaping heaven is like.

orchid v4: ok, so. the v4 is ostensibly just the v3 but with a longer chimney stem and tank, and therefore enhanced capacity. right now, i have no idea if that's actually true, because every time i try to fill this thing it leaks half the juice i put it, seemingly. It's got the bottom-fill port like the v3, but while the v3 is dead-simple to fill kayfun style, this thing seems to HATE taking juice into its precious interior. first i get killer backflow, like top-filling the v1. so i go slow, fine. but then it starts gushing out of the tip (holding it upsidedown). and i notice that the juice seems to sorta bunch up around the rim of the chimney, where it narrows down to the stem part. it's almost like there's a chokepoint and the juice can't really get past there. and in fact, as i hold up the v3 and v4, both half-filled, it really does look like the chimney on the v4 is closer to the PC window on the v4 than on the v4, so maybe there actually IS a chokepoint. the vape is still amazing, and if I can figure out how to actually fill this thing, it might be perfect. But i was expecting all the ease of the v3 (yep) with just capacity boost (yep) and no additional problems (oops).

so.

right now, the v3 is actually my favorite out of all these orchids. as soon as i finish off this half-tank in the v4, i'll try another fill method. I just opened my second v4 and measured the capacity using water. water via a syringe went into the bottom just fine, and it took almost 5.5 ml (!!) before overflowing. for giggles i went ahead and did the oldschool v1/kayfun topfill method and it took 5ml like a champ, so long as i covered both airholes while i filled. pretty dang impressive. if i can get the other v4 working perfectly (i really really hope i dont have to topfill) then I'll go head and build the second v4 and retire the v1. i think the v3 is sticking around for good though. old reliable now (two whole weeks, lol).

I will update as appropriate.

EDIT: i forgot to mention that the screws on the v3 and v4 are Philips-head, not hex. the spares for the v3 are also Philips, but the spares for both of my v4s are actually hex. so I guess i'll have to be good to these screws so i don't have to go back to the nightmare-fuel hex screws.
Dr.I, the V4 is my first Orchid and I have the same issues with filling and leaking. Why is the V3 better in that area? I appreciate your info and look forward to your follow up.
 

DoctorIdiot

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@TheWestPole , hope this link works right. Obviously I didn't embed the entire vid. Just the shot of the finished wick. Nope, looks like the entire vid came up.
OK i know I said i was going to bed, but I saw this post (thanks for proving my google-fu is indeed weak) and just had to say two things.

First, for the love of god, do not wick your orchid in this manner if you are using rayon. It will be the most miserable experience of your vaping career. On cotton, I simply cannot believe that it would work as well as channelwicking (seriously look at how choked off the airflow is! how could anyone live like that? o_O ). It might work just fine, and i'd be very very curious to hear the opinions and insights of someone who tries both this method and channelwicking, but please, random reader, try channelwicking first. the Airflow Magnifica is the single greatest achievement of the orchid family, and I feel like any new inductee into the orchid cult should really experience that first. if you have troubles with the channel wicks and want to try making cotton clouds or just an anarchic cotton chaos like this guy, then you can go ahead, and perhaps it'll work for you. but if it does indeed choke off the airflow like i believe it will, you'll come back to the channelwicks. and we'll be here to help you nail 'em down right. (note that none of this is directed at you, muth. i'm simply being dramatic because it's late and i'm possibly tipsy).

Secondly! ... there was a secondly... OH! right! ok, if you get airhole leaks after filling like this guy does (and if you ever topfill, you will get the airhole leaks) do not blow it out the way he does! turn the orchid upside-down prior to blowing it out. you'll force air up and into the chamber, where it can only exit from the airholes. you'll splatter juice all over the tissue that you've so presciently wrapped around the base, and then the passages will be clean and clear. if you blow it out whilst holding the thing base-downwards, you will clear the passages of the initial leaky gloop, yes. but THEN you will also begin forcing any additional chambered juice down onto the base, and thence into the airhole. and if you've wicked the orchid well, you might see a very surprising quantity of juice come flying out of the airholes over far more lungfuls of air than you predicted you'd be expending here. i made this mistake precisely two times (i'm a slow learner). and the second time, I blew out nearly half a tank of juice before my high school physics kicked in and i realized what a complete doofus i was being. I still topfill one of my v4 orchids. I still have to blow it out every damn time. but it takes one single puff, one single tissue, and then it's off to vaping heaven for the next five milliliters of my life.

that is all. to bed with me.
 

DoctorIdiot

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Dr.I, the V4 is my first Orchid and I have the same issues with filling and leaking. Why is the V3 better in that area? I appreciate your info and look forward to your follow up.

goddammit. you just HAD to post another thing that i felt the need to reply to, didn't you? :p

ok, so i forgot to update my investigatory escapades with regards to the v3 and v4. first off, all the problems with the v4 that i listed in that post are mooted now, except one. I still find it far far harder to fill the v4 via the bottom fill port than the v3. I don't actually get the leaking anymore (doubled up on the chimney-stem o-rings), and it doesn't backup from the fill port as badly anymore. but that being said, it is still definitely more of a pain to fill than the v3, period, and i think i know why.

first the pain. with the v3, i flip it over, take the screw out, whip out any old juice bottle, and with carefree delight i just squirt away, barely paying attention, and continue haphazardly squirting until the juice level flows up and over the side window. close'er down, flip'er over, and vape. never a care in the world. amazing. for 3 milliliters, which is at least a couple of solid lung-hits ;)

with the v4, on the other hand.... I flip it over, take the screw out, and make sure there is ZERO juice above the fill window. this usually involves waiting for a minute or two while some straggler bits of juice slowly creep down the sides of the tank. then i tilt it at about 45 degrees with the fill port upwards, stick a needle-tipped bottle in, and sloowwwwwwlllly squeeze juice in until the entire side window area is filled. this does not take as long as you'd think, because the juice all pools up there while i'm filling, just above the spot where the chimney narrows down. i then stop filling, and wait patiently as that batch of juice slowly drains down into the lower part of the tank. once the window is mostly clear again, i repeat this process. and then again. and so on. It usually takes about 5 total fill cycles until there is no more draining, which means the tank is full of five milliliters of pure enjoyment.

so. why does the juice gush down the sides of the v3, happily filling the entire chamber like liquid puppies (don't visualize that) while the v4 stubbornly raises its nose, demanding that you observe proper decorum and wait patiently for your vaping satisfaction?

it is (i think) a matter of simple mechanics. if you disassemble the v3 and v4, they seem basically the same, with just a longer chimney stem and correspondingly longer tank to separate the two. if, however, you open up both a v3 and a v4 from the top, leaving the rest assembled, you will notice that there is actually a difference inside, once you've got the various moving parts in place.

as you no doubt know (again, this is addressed more generally), all three-part window-bearing kayfun tanks (at least all the various clone ones i have) consist of two identical metal pieces and then the inner plastic bit that is very slightly different from the other two. It's not just that it's made of plastic. What is interesting, and potentially relevant, is that they are actually not the same thickness. Again, this is just from all of my various kayfun tanks, but the inner plastic window portion is actually thicker than the metal top and bottom rings. it's not a big difference, but there is a slight inner bulge along the entire internal length of your tank where the plastic window is.

before i go any further here, i'm going to define two terms that i use when mentally thinking about this. one is the place where this bulge of the plastic window ends, transitioning from the narrow confines of the window back to the comparatively roomy interior of the metal rings. let's call this the start of the "upper chamber". the second term is for the place where the chimney that screws down over the build deck narrows down to the chimney stem. I call this the "chimney shelf". ignore as you see fit for your own purposes, but i'll be using them in this writeup hereafter.

now, on the v3, upper chamber opens rather low on the overall height of the device, since the two metal rings are so short. consequently, when you assemble the device, the chimney shelf actually exists within the upper chamber. in contrast, the v4 has much longer metal tank rings, and so the upper chamber actually opens up much higher than it does on the v3. so high, in fact, that the chimney shelf occurs within the plastic bulge, very nearly level with the transition in fact. Because of this very small detail, the fluid dynamics within the tank itself are actually dramatically different.

I have neither the patience nor the immediate ability to generate the equations or simulations necessary to prove it, but my gut tells me that having the chimney shelf and the upper chamber flare at the same level results in a pressure differential that is steeper than that which occurs in the v3. that pressure difference, i think, means that the exact same liquids in the exact same bottles flow through the tanks more smoothly in the v3 than in the v4.

i could be one hundred percent wrong on the reason, and i could even be basically wrong on the existence of a significant mechanical difference. my sample size is 3, which is hardly academically valid :p. but i am very sure of my experiences heretofore, and i maintain that, while i absolutely adore my v4s and breathe so much more easily with all that capacity, the v3 is definitely easier to fill quickly and smoothly from the fill port, given identical vg-heavy juices.

now, anyone with a stronger physics and engineering background can feel free to rip me a new one. :D

i'm REALLY off to bed this time. (jeesh)
 

TheWestPole

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Secondly! ... there was a secondly... OH! right! ok, if you get airhole leaks after filling like this guy does (and if you ever topfill, you will get the airhole leaks) do not blow it out the way he does! turn the orchid upside-down prior to blowing it out. you'll force air up and into the chamber, where it can only exit from the airholes. you'll splatter juice all over the tissue that you've so presciently wrapped around the base, and then the passages will be clean and clear. if you blow it out whilst holding the thing base-downwards, you will clear the passages of the initial leaky gloop, yes. but THEN you will also begin forcing any additional chambered juice down onto the base, and thence into the airhole. and if you've wicked the orchid well, you might see a very surprising quantity of juice come flying out of the airholes over far more lungfuls of air than you predicted you'd be expending here. i made this mistake precisely two times (i'm a slow learner). and the second time, I blew out nearly half a tank of juice before my high school physics kicked in and i realized what a complete doofus i was being. I still topfill one of my v4 orchids. I still have to blow it out every damn time. but it takes one single puff, one single tissue, and then it's off to vaping heaven for the next five milliliters of my life.

Man, you sure know how to blow! ;) And your basic hydraulics too. Excellent advise. Both for those still enjoying their V1s regardless of the top filling, and the rest clearing the rare flood.
 

muth

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goddammit. you just HAD to post another thing that i felt the need to reply to, didn't you? :p

ok, so i forgot to update my investigatory escapades with regards to the v3 and v4. first off, all the problems with the v4 that i listed in that post are mooted now, except one. I still find it far far harder to fill the v4 via the bottom fill port than the v3. I don't actually get the leaking anymore (doubled up on the chimney-stem o-rings), and it doesn't backup from the fill port as badly anymore. but that being said, it is still definitely more of a pain to fill than the v3, period, and i think i know why.

first the pain. with the v3, i flip it over, take the screw out, whip out any old juice bottle, and with carefree delight i just squirt away, barely paying attention, and continue haphazardly squirting until the juice level flows up and over the side window. close'er down, flip'er over, and vape. never a care in the world. amazing. for 3 milliliters, which is at least a couple of solid lung-hits ;)

with the v4, on the other hand.... I flip it over, take the screw out, and make sure there is ZERO juice above the fill window. this usually involves waiting for a minute or two while some straggler bits of juice slowly creep down the sides of the tank. then i tilt it at about 45 degrees with the fill port upwards, stick a needle-tipped bottle in, and sloowwwwwwlllly squeeze juice in until the entire side window area is filled. this does not take as long as you'd think, because the juice all pools up there while i'm filling, just above the spot where the chimney narrows down. i then stop filling, and wait patiently as that batch of juice slowly drains down into the lower part of the tank. once the window is mostly clear again, i repeat this process. and then again. and so on. It usually takes about 5 total fill cycles until there is no more draining, which means the tank is full of five milliliters of pure enjoyment.

so. why does the juice gush down the sides of the v3, happily filling the entire chamber like liquid puppies (don't visualize that) while the v4 stubbornly raises its nose, demanding that you observe proper decorum and wait patiently for your vaping satisfaction?

it is (i think) a matter of simple mechanics. if you disassemble the v3 and v4, they seem basically the same, with just a longer chimney stem and correspondingly longer tank to separate the two. if, however, you open up both a v3 and a v4 from the top, leaving the rest assembled, you will notice that there is actually a difference inside, once you've got the various moving parts in place.

as you no doubt know (again, this is addressed more generally), all three-part window-bearing kayfun tanks (at least all the various clone ones i have) consist of two identical metal pieces and then the inner plastic bit that is very slightly different from the other two. It's not just that it's made of plastic. What is interesting, and potentially relevant, is that they are actually not the same thickness. Again, this is just from all of my various kayfun tanks, but the inner plastic window portion is actually thicker than the metal top and bottom rings. it's not a big difference, but there is a slight inner bulge along the entire internal length of your tank where the plastic window is.

before i go any further here, i'm going to define two terms that i use when mentally thinking about this. one is the place where this bulge of the plastic window ends, transitioning from the narrow confines of the window back to the comparatively roomy interior of the metal rings. let's call this the start of the "upper chamber". the second term is for the place where the chimney that screws down over the build deck narrows down to the chimney stem. I call this the "chimney shelf". ignore as you see fit for your own purposes, but i'll be using them in this writeup hereafter.

now, on the v3, upper chamber opens rather low on the overall height of the device, since the two metal rings are so short. consequently, when you assemble the device, the chimney shelf actually exists within the upper chamber. in contrast, the v4 has much longer metal tank rings, and so the upper chamber actually opens up much higher than it does on the v3. so high, in fact, that the chimney shelf occurs within the plastic bulge, very nearly level with the transition in fact. Because of this very small detail, the fluid dynamics within the tank itself are actually dramatically different.

I have neither the patience nor the immediate ability to generate the equations or simulations necessary to prove it, but my gut tells me that having the chimney shelf and the upper chamber flare at the same level results in a pressure differential that is steeper than that which occurs in the v3. that pressure difference, i think, means that the exact same liquids in the exact same bottles flow through the tanks more smoothly in the v3 than in the v4.

i could be one hundred percent wrong on the reason, and i could even be basically wrong on the existence of a significant mechanical difference. my sample size is 3, which is hardly academically valid :p. but i am very sure of my experiences heretofore, and i maintain that, while i absolutely adore my v4s and breathe so much more easily with all that capacity, the v3 is definitely easier to fill quickly and smoothly from the fill port, given identical vg-heavy juices.

now, anyone with a stronger physics and engineering background can feel free to rip me a new one. :D

i'm REALLY off to bed this time. (jeesh)
Jesus Christ, go to bed already! Thought I'd hear back tomorrow or some other time. But thanks anyway. I appreciate it.
 

TheWestPole

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
@TheWestPole , hope this link works right. Obviously I didn't embed the entire vid. Just the shot of the finished wick. Nope, looks like the entire vid came up.

I "liked" this post @muth but don't like the wicking style for Orchid. Now I recall seeing it before my first Orchid build, and rejecting it because it conflicted with my Kayfun experience. Orchid is very much Kayfun x 2 in design, so I thought I would follow suit, etc.

Big hairdo wicks are more for drippers and clouds. When that volume of wick is all loaded up with juice you're gonna get a humongous hit of course. But replenishing all that tangle will be a little like sucking through a knotted straw. Unless that tangle were sitting in a well full of juice as in a dripper.

The game is simpler with Orchid: the shortest distance between two points. Get the juice from top of channel to center of coil by the most direct route. While you're inhaling that coil-adjacent juice, replenishment is only a few mm travel time away. And it's in the fast lane in line with the fibers rather than across them.

Let us know if you got that top leak sorted out, okay? Cheers!
 
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calibrae

Member For 4 Years
Welcome! What exactly do you mean by some extension tube?

I mean the part I linked on svoemesto's site in the first post. It's just a little tube you can stick ontop of an existing kayfun chimney. The wide part contains an oring to secure the chimney and the stem is exactly the same diameter as the regular chimney to fit in the top cap.

Here's the link again http://www.svoemesto.de/kayfun-3-1/kayfun-v3-1-verlaengerungsroehrchen.html
You can see two of them used here

I bought it maybe a year ago, Svoemesto has been out of stock for this part since then. Cloud9 even removed the listing.

Each extension tube allows you to add a tank ring and a tank middle section, roughly 4 to 4.5 ml.
 

DoctorIdiot

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I mean the part I linked on svoemesto's site in the first post. It's just a little tube you can stick ontop of an existing kayfun chimney. The wide part contains an oring to secure the chimney and the stem is exactly the same diameter as the regular chimney to fit in the top cap.

Here's the link again http://www.svoemesto.de/kayfun-3-1/kayfun-v3-1-verlaengerungsroehrchen.html
You can see two of them used here

I bought it maybe a year ago, Svoemesto has been out of stock for this part since then. Cloud9 even removed the listing.

Each extension tube allows you to add a tank ring and a tank middle section, roughly 4 to 4.5 ml.

how is it that this is a thing which seems perfect for my needs, and it apparently ceased to exist before i even started vaping? it's like the universe somehow doesn't organize itself specifically to suit my needs o_O

no but really, that looks amazing, and it also seems to be completely and utterly non-existent now. I wonder if they really even sold any significant number of them before changing over to the screw-in chimney extension which evidently replaced it.

don't get me wrong, some of the DIY extensions elsewhere in this channel are brilliant, but this thing is amazing. or rather, was. sigh.
 

TheWestPole

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Reply to @calibrae, not @DoctorIdiot:

Duh, I hadn't bothered to click on the spinning view on the Svoemesto site. New to me. Now I get your original post. Handy little part. For Kayfun, a clunkier solution than what replaced it, but cheaper and much more versatile: fitting Orchid too! Makes no sense that it hasn't been cloned. All the tank sections have, but they are of limited use without chimney extensions. My DIY solutions are not for everybody, of course, but they've got my tank selection covered anywhere from stock size to 70mm. So I've moved on from the chimney issue.

You know about the Taifun GT Nano tank, right? It's 4mm shorter (or 1 ml) than regular size Kayfun, but it holds 1.6 ml more that Orchid V1-V3 using the stock chamber/chimney, which ain't nuttin'. 70 cents in a multi-pack on FT.
 
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TheWestPole

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
This @calibrae is not outrageously priced ($15) and could free up the extension you have for use on your Orchid.

$_57.JPG


http://www.ebay.com/itm/201162718390?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
 
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muth

Gold Contributor
Member For 5 Years
I "liked" this post @muth but don't like the wicking style for Orchid. Now I recall seeing it before my first Orchid build, and rejecting it because it conflicted with my Kayfun experience. Orchid is very much Kayfun x 2 by design, so I thought I would follow suit, etc.

Big hairdo wicks are more for drippers and clouds. When that volume of wick is all loaded up with juice you're gonna get a humongous hit of course. But replenishing all that tangle will be a little like sucking through a knotted straw. Unless that tangle were sitting in a well full of juice as in a dripper.

The game is simpler with Orchid: the shortest distance between two points. Get the juice from top of channel to center of coil by the most direct route. While you're inhaling that coil-adjacent juice, replenishment is only a few mm travel time away. And it's in the fast lane in line with the fibers rather than across them.

Let us know if you got that top leak sorted out, okay? Cheers!
I believe I did, thank you. I, myself, like rayon and tend to agree with the wicking style that you propose. Most everyone does except NJV. I tried his concept with deck holes cleared, of course, and it works but I plan on rewicking with rayon and using the more popular method.
 

TheWestPole

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I mean the part I linked on svoemesto's site in the first post. It's just a little tube you can stick ontop of an existing kayfun chimney. The wide part contains an oring to secure the chimney and the stem is exactly the same diameter as the regular chimney to fit in the top cap.
how is it that this is a thing which seems perfect for my needs, and it apparently ceased to exist before i even started vaping? it's like the universe somehow doesn't organize itself specifically to suit my needs o_O

no but really, that looks amazing, and it also seems to be completely and utterly non-existent now. I wonder if they really even sold any significant number of them before changing over to the screw-in chimney extension which evidently replaced it.

don't get me wrong, some of the DIY extensions elsewhere in this channel are brilliant, but this thing is amazing. or rather, was. sigh.


Here's the link again http://www.svoemesto.de/kayfun-3-1/kayfun-v3-1-verlaengerungsroehrchen.html
You can see two of them used here

I bought it maybe a year ago, Svoemesto has been out of stock for this part since then. Cloud9 even removed the listing.

Each extension tube allows you to add a tank ring and a tank middle section, roughly 4 to 4.5 ml.

I agree totally with your complaints about the universe. :)
 

TheWestPole

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I believe I did, thank you. I, myself, like rayon and tend to agree with the wicking style that you propose. Most everyone does except NJV. I tried his concept with deck holes cleared, of course, and it works but I plan on rewicking with rayon and using the more popular method.

I made no claims to originality, @muth. :)
 
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muth

Gold Contributor
Member For 5 Years
@TheWestPole, oh, are u talking about the wick? Did I say you invented that style? Hee hee. I've seen a few other people use that method with the tails. That's what I'm going to try once I get rid of this cotton ball mess. And thanks to all for the help. I just might buy the V3 for the ease of filling. I'm not the most patient sometimes.
 

calibrae

Member For 4 Years
This @calibrae is not outrageously priced ($15) and could free up the extension you have for use on your Orchid.

$_57.JPG


http://www.ebay.com/itm/201162718390?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Looks real nice indeed, still, living in frog country, I'd get a doubled price just for shipping.

BUT ! I found a shop still selling extension tubes, just ordered two of them. http://www.damping.no/collections/reserve-deler/products/svoemesto-kayfun-extension-tube
Shipping fee was about 6 € for international orders. Guess it won't be much more for cross atlantic shipments.

EDIT: I just put a product request on FT as well. You never know. And for Chinese manufacturing power, such a part would be really simple to make.

EDIT2: Aaaaaannd FT release the V4 chimney http://www.fasttech.com/products/3023/10009751/1918600
 
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TheWestPole

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years

Good eye! :D Many have been waiting for this, including me. Will be a big relief for Orchid vapers who don't want to DIY their long chimneys. Now, if they would just offer the V2 base (they have V1 only) we will be able to assemble totally a la carte with Orchid bottom half and Kayfun/Taifun everything else.

I'm going to re-post this with a photo.
 
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TheWestPole

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
NEW! Orchid V4 chimney now available on FT.


Untitled edit.jpg


Great news for Orchid owners. Your V1, V2, V3 and V3.5 will now be off-the-shelf upgradable to full size Kayfun tanks and tank parts. This is the best new Orchid piece to come along since the V2 base fill port. If, like me, you find all those clunky cosmetic version changes silly and not in the least desirable. Thanks to @calibrae for catching it first. :D
 

calibrae

Member For 4 Years
And with the extension I'll be able to use the SM long makrolon tank, pushing capacity up to 8 or 9 mils. Just what one's need for a good foggy day.

Now I'd really like to find some mod splitter under 10 bucks. With a 20x1 threading as the cherry ontop. But a man can dream.
 

Eric DeCastro

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
wow, a week with my V3 and I'm loving it. I have a V4 that hasn't even been packaged yet and I can't wait for it to arrive. my v3 is ok, i don't mind filling so much, I used to drip after every other hit, so going for an hour or so doesn't bother me. the V4 will just be icing on the cake. this is the best atty I have ever owned.
 

TheWestPole

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
wow, a week with my V3 and I'm loving it. I have a V4 that hasn't even been packaged yet and I can't wait for it to arrive. my v3 is ok, i don't mind filling so much, I used to drip after every other hit, so going for an hour or so doesn't bother me. the V4 will just be icing on the cake. this is the best atty I have ever owned.

That's a BUMP. :)
 

muth

Gold Contributor
Member For 5 Years
I took my V4 out driving today and had no leaking issues. Got home, filled it with more juice, started vaping and it leaked out of the bottom airflow holes.
Anyone know why it's fine sometimes and then not? Other than losing juice I'm really diggin' this! Just to mention, I have used both filling methods - bottom screw and top fill. Could it be a pressure issue? I've only used RDAs before this.
 

TheWestPole

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I took my V4 out driving today and had no leaking issues. Got home, filled it with more juice, started vaping and it leaked out of the bottom airflow holes. Anyone know why it's fine sometimes and then not? Other than losing juice I'm really diggin' this! Just to mention, I have used both filling methods - bottom screw and top fill. Could it be a pressure issue? I've only used RDAs before this.

Only times I get air hole leakage (besides from top filling on V1): temperature changes (as with all tanks) and if it's set on its side for a period of time. Orchid does like to stay upright.
 

calibrae

Member For 4 Years
If it's leaking, could be the wick, most people would answer. But, it's a pressure based atomiser, so, even with a bad or short wick, as long as the pressure IN the tank is low enough, no juice should spill out.
With very large tank, whatever your build, if you're tight on full tank (I mean 10 mil+ tanks) you'll have leaks when nearing the bottom. The more air there's in the tank, the higher the risk the pressure will change. What I do is put my gear upside down, wait for the juice to clear the juice channels, close airholes with my fingers, dry pull without releasing pressure on the airholes, reverse the atty, wait for the juice to cover all juice channel, and then release airholes. This lower the internal pressure and even suck up the remaining juice in the air channels, back in the tank.

This can sometimes lower the pressure too low, so a couple dry pulls will equilibrate pressure (bubbles, bubbles)

Of course this is doable with little or no wick in the juice channels. Never tried an Aqua, but I've been able to vape without dry hits a Gus Estia - still the best and most versatile RTA out there imho - without wicks in the juice channels.

And if you have to ride an airplane, or drive a car through mountain ranges, keep the RTA upside down. As long as there is no juice sealing the channels between the chamber and the tank, pressure should always equilibrate.

Of course, the thicker the juice, the safer your pockets...
 

Eric DeCastro

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
i used to get leaking when I over filled (on a V3 it's easy to do) so i would fill until the bubble just about disapears into the lower tank end and STOP. then put the fill screw back in and it shouldn't leak, that is if you wicked properly but for sake of argument, I will assume you wicked it properly.
 

muth

Gold Contributor
Member For 5 Years
If it's leaking, could be the wick, most people would answer. But, it's a pressure based atomiser, so, even with a bad or short wick, as long as the pressure IN the tank is low enough, no juice should spill out.
With very large tank, whatever your build, if you're tight on full tank (I mean 10 mil+ tanks) you'll have leaks when nearing the bottom. The more air there's in the tank, the higher the risk the pressure will change. What I do is put my gear upside down, wait for the juice to clear the juice channels, close airholes with my fingers, dry pull without releasing pressure on the airholes, reverse the atty, wait for the juice to cover all juice channel, and then release airholes. This lower the internal pressure and even suck up the remaining juice in the air channels, back in the tank.

This can sometimes lower the pressure too low, so a couple dry pulls will equilibrate pressure (bubbles, bubbles)

Of course this is doable with little or no wick in the juice channels. Never tried an Aqua, but I've been able to vape without dry hits a Gus Estia - still the best and most versatile RTA out there imho - without wicks in the juice channels.

And if you have to ride an airplane, or drive a car through mountain ranges, keep the RTA upside down. As long as there is no juice sealing the channels between the chamber and the tank, pressure should always equilibrate.

Of course, the thicker the juice, the safer your pockets...
Thank you for the interesting info. Being that the gentleman above stated that the Orchid likes to stay upright, I find it interesting that the opposite is true when in a low pressure atmosphere.
 

muth

Gold Contributor
Member For 5 Years
i used to get leaking when I over filled (on a V3 it's easy to do) so i would fill until the bubble just about disapears into the lower tank end and STOP. then put the fill screw back in and it shouldn't leak, that is if you wicked properly but for sake of argument, I will assume you wicked it properly.
I must have because it stopped leaking. Thanks! :)
 

Midniteoyl

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Thank you for the interesting info. Being that the gentleman above stated that the Orchid likes to stay upright, I find it interesting that the opposite is true when in a low pressure atmosphere.
If its upright when going up a mountain, the pressure inside is greater than without and it will seek to equalize.. And since your juice is in the way, it will push it out ;)

Same thing happens with several temp changes..

Upside down, the juice is not in the way and just the air goes out..

Interestingly though, I can lay my Orchid on its side and not normally have a problem (not going up a mountain), so I guess not all Orchids like to be upright
 

Eric DeCastro

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
the only time I get leaks is if I leave it on it's side for too long (few min) so i keep it straight up or upside down but straight up is ideal. it's strange my kayfuns, i can keep on the side and I'll have little to no leaking issues.
 

TheWestPole

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
And if you have to ride an airplane, or drive a car through mountain ranges, keep the RTA upside down. As long as there is no juice sealing the channels between the chamber and the tank, pressure should always equilibrate.

Indeed. Upside down (no juice in the channels) is the best way to insure no leakage when you are not using the atty.
 

TheWestPole

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Thank you for the interesting info. Being that the gentleman above stated that the Orchid likes to stay upright, I find it interesting that the opposite is true when in a low pressure atmosphere.

To clarify, think of three basic positions regarding usage and leaking :

Upright: The vacuum of the sealed tank keeps the juice from continually flowing into the chamber. (Basic principle of tanks.) The wicks will saturate by "pulling" (wicking) enough juice in, but once saturated will no longer pull, until that wicked juice is vaporized. This is the nominal situation. Significant pressure differences between the outside atmosphere (which is also in the chamber) and the air inside the tank will upset the balance. When the air in the tank expands from heat, for example, juice can be "pushed" into the chamber. When outside air pressure drops significantly juice can be "pulled" into the chamber.

Upside-down: With juice level below the channels no new juice can enter the chamber. The air pressure outside and inside the tank will soon equalize. You may get a little bit of leakage out the drip tip at first, but only residual unwicked juice in the chamber, no more than that.

Sideways: Any residual unwicked juice may find its way to an air hole and out the side of the atty. The air pressure outside and inside the tank will soon equalize if the air (bubble) in the tank covers one of the juice channels. When the pressure equalizes more juice can enter the chamber (depending on the degree to which the wick tail covers the juice channel, which depends on the style of your wicking) and that juice can find its way to an air hole and out the side of the atty. So putting your tank down for a period of time can cause a little or a lot of leaking.

Guidelines for myself: 1) Keep the tank generally upright when in use to maintain the vacuum effect. 2) Keep it upside-down when not in use for the best protection against leakage. 3) Don't let the tank lie an its side for any length of time. Personally, I don't pocket my rigs upside-down. Upside-down is for longer term, when they are not in use. Full tanks at home are kept drip tip down, unless I'm too lazy to take them off the mod.

I know this is basic tank stuff for y'all, but @muth's Orchid is her first tank. And I'm willing to learn anything from anybody @calibrae, but I'm going to keep pocketing my rig upright for the time being. :)
 
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TheWestPole

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
the only time I get leaks is if I leave it on it's side for too long (few min) so i keep it straight up or upside down but straight up is ideal. it's strange my kayfuns, i can keep on the side and I'll have little to no leaking issues.

Me too. Kayfun air hole is in the center so away from residual juice, and there are half as many juice channels to catch the tank air and equalize the pressure. This is one minor reason why lately I'm using Kayfun more as my pocketable stealth rig, the main one being that, with a nano tank and 18350 battery, it lasts longer that an Orchid. Oh, but I do look forward to that Orchid when I get home. :)
 

muth

Gold Contributor
Member For 5 Years
To clarify, think of three basic positions regarding usage and leaking :

Upright: The vacuum of the sealed tank keeps the juice from continually flowing into the chamber. (Basic principle of tanks.) The wicks will saturate by "pulling" (wicking) enough juice in, but once saturated will no longer pull, until that wicked juice is vaporized. This is the nominal situation. Significant pressure differences between the outside atmosphere (which is also in the chamber) and the air inside the tank will upset the balance. When the air in the tank expands from heat, for example, juice can be "pushed" into the chamber. When outside air pressure drops significantly juice can be "pulled" into the chamber.

Upside-down: With juice level below the channels no new juice can enter the chamber. The air pressure outside and inside the tank will soon equalize. You may get a little bit of leakage out the drip tip at first, but only residual unwicked juice in the chamber, no more than that.

Sideways: Any residual unwicked juice may find its way to an air hole and out the side of the atty. The air pressure outside and inside the tank will soon equalize if the air (bubble) in the tank covers one of the juice channels. When the pressure equalizes more juice can enter the chamber (depending on the degree to which the wick tail covers the juice channel, which depends on the style of your wicking) and that juice can find its way to an air hole and out the side of the atty. So putting your tank down for a period of time can cause a little or a lot of leaking.

Guidelines for myself: 1) Keep the tank generally upright when in use to maintain the vacuum effect. 2) Keep it upside-down when not in use for the best protection against leakage. Personally, I don't pocket my rigs upside-down. Upside-down is for longer term, when they are not in use. Full tanks at home are kept drip tip down, unless I'm too lazy to take them off the mod.

I know this is basic tank stuff for y'all, but @muth's Orchid is her first tank. And I'm willing to learn anything from anybody @calibrae, bit I'm going to keep pocketing my rig upright for the time being. :)
Thank you, kind sir!
 
L

Lighty269

Guest
Has anyone seen a place to get the insulator for the center, mine melted and now the V3 is useless and has a short. Would of been nice if it was porcelain.
 

Eric DeCastro

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Has anyone seen a place to get the insulator for the center, mine melted and now the V3 is useless and has a short. Would of been nice if it was porcelain.
mine melted too from an unlocked mod in my pocket luckily it didn't cause a short. if you find one let me know other wise i'll be buying a new base from fasttech.
 

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