Preparing for Regulations?

[wayne.walkerr]

So the TVECA has released the guidelines the FDA has for vapor companies to submit their Premarket Tobacco Applications. After reading it we can only imagine the destruction this PMTA and other regulations will have on the vaping industry as we know. Not only will this stunt innovation, but it will also make vapor products much more expensive. This in the end will scare away smokers, which is the worst part of it all. There are still millions of smokers who have not found the quitting cheat code known as vaping.

But where does this leave DIYer's? The guidelines are quite vague, which makes it easier for the FDA to classify any products that seems like vapor products a tobacco product. But can they classify flavorings suspended in PG/VG as a tobacco product? What about nicotine? Will we be able to have access to it whenever we please? VG? PG? These questions might seem simple to answer, but these incoming regulations (from TVECA) are quite strict and we can see they want to drive the market completely into BT/BP hands. I am getting inundated with tons of emails already from new mixers looking for advice to start. This is worrisome because we already have trouble getting the ingredients we need, I can't imagine how difficult it will be when the entire industry is in a panic.

I want to know everyone's plans for the worst. Are you doing anything to prepare for an apocalypse? What kind of storage solutions are you using? Are you stocking up on flavorings and nicotine? I just want to know if anyone is worried, or has any plans, for a worst case scenario...which seems like this is what is going to happen.

 

[Huckleberried]

The only thing I have "backed up" is nic.

 

[pulsevape]

I don't know why..he didn't really clarify, but I rcentely talked to a nic supplier and he felt the the regs wouldn't be that bad....I thought he was whisteling past the graveyard.

 

[TRAPstar]

remember the .22LR shortage of the past couple years with obamas gun/ammo ban on the books?


there WILL be a scare, people WILL buy large amounts at inflated prices, then when the money making frenzy is over the bill WILL fall on its face and people WILL find workarounds.

i can still brew my own beer, grow my own tobacco, and in some US states i can grow my own "medicine"

there is workarounds. it will make it harder for new products to be available, the price of nic might go up a little but i dont think it will kill the industry or the DIY guys.

honestly id like to see fed regulations only because of the scary places and conditions some juices are made in that as mass marketed.

we cant expect this to be a "free" market for long, now can we?

 

[pulsevape]

oh no of course not...I mean we all know that freedom should be kept to a n absolute miniimum....

 

[SailCat]

We're OK on the PG/Vg front as it's used in too may other industries ro make it difficult or more expensive to obtain. I've only hoarded about 1,500ml of 100mg/ml nic, though. TIme to go shopping ... for a bigger freezer.

 

[Huckleberried]

 

[MrScaryZ]

So the TVECA has released the guidelines the FDA has for vapor companies to submit their Premarket Tobacco Applications. After reading it we can only imagine the destruction this PMTA and other regulations will have on the vaping industry as we know. Not only will this stunt innovation, but it will also make vapor products much more expensive. This in the end will scare away smokers, which is the worst part of it all. There are still millions of smokers who have not found the quitting cheat code known as vaping.

But where does this leave DIYer's? The guidelines are quite vague, which makes it easier for the FDA to classify any products that seems like vapor products a tobacco product. But can they classify flavorings suspended in PG/VG as a tobacco product? What about nicotine? Will we be able to have access to it whenever we please? VG? PG? These questions might seem simple to answer, but these incoming regulations (from TVECA) are quite strict and we can see they want to drive the market completely into BT/BP hands. I am getting inundated with tons of emails already from new mixers looking for advice to start. This is worrisome because we already have trouble getting the ingredients we need, I can't imagine how difficult it will be when the entire industry is in a panic.

I want to know everyone's plans for the worst. Are you doing anything to prepare for an apocalypse? What kind of storage solutions are you using? Are you stocking up on flavorings and nicotine? I just want to know if anyone is worried, or has any plans, for a worst case scenario...which seems like this is what is going to happen.

Yep Im doing what I feared 2.5 years ago I am stocked up for years.. and going underground is why this place was invented Im doing exactly what I fear to happen

 

[pulsevape]

Yep Im doing what I feared 2.5 years ago I am stocked up for years.. and going underground is why this place was invented Im doing exactly what I fear to happen

yeah but you're a loony vaping uranium or some other such stuff

 

[Huckleberried]

yeah but you're a loony vaping uranium or some other such stuff

The newest member of The Blue Man Group.

 

[sk7175]

nicotine is the big one, I'll stock up if I think something is eminent. pg, vg, and even flavorings are all used in other industries

 

[MrScaryZ]

yeah but you're a loony vaping uranium or some other such stuff

Nope not just Uraniaum like I said I have a friend that wants me to vape a fish
he said the Cartilage will help me!!
Here it is he said to vape this thing

 

[Jimi]

That figures and I am down to 2 liters of nic.

 

[pulsevape]

The newest member of The Blue Man Group.

 

[Jimi]

Nope not just Uraniaum like I said I have a friend that wants me to vape a fish
he said the Cartilage will help me!!
Here it is he said to vape this thing

Cool looks tastey

 

[Huckleberried]

That figures and I am down to 2 liters of nic.

That's about what I have. Twins, I tell ya. Now where's my coffee?

 

[Huckleberried]

Nope not just Uraniaum like I said I have a friend that wants me to vape a fish
he said the Cartilage will help me!!
Here it is he said to vape this thing

Pill form, dude. Pill form.

 

[MrScaryZ]

Pill form, dude. Pill form.

Nope he said to vape it... Why cant I vape that scary fish? any reason?

 

[SailCat]

Is this a segue to that old tune-a-fish gag?

 

[wayne.walkerr]

@Huckleberried I'm pretty much stocked with Nic as well, it's the flavorings I'm worried about. Also...time to buy all the freezers. I can't wait to start to see some peoples "Storage Stations" which will be homegrown labs in their houses. I'm tellin ya it's gonna happen quote me on it haha.

 

[Jimi]

I must be lucky I have 3 freezers.

 

[Huckleberried]

I must be lucky I have 3 freezers.

I'm buying ALL JIMI'S FREEZERS!

I've considered stocking flavorings, but I've had a couple go bad. I really think they'll still be available. Candy makers, bakers, and the like... Plus with all the ones I do have, it'll be quite some time before I run out of everything. Nic is the only thing I'm immediately concerned about. But I've lowered my nic from 24 to 10 and I still have about 2.5 Liters on ice.

 

[HeadInClouds]

it's the flavorings I'm worried about.

Why?

 

[Zamazam]

I've been stocking up on nic and flavorings for a while, my basement freezer is full. The flavorings I use the most are in liter bottles.

 

[SailCat]

Why?

Ah. So grateful for the voice of reason. As with PG & VG, flavorings ain't going anywhere and for similar reasons.

 

[wllmc]

LMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! right !

 

[Mattp169]

pg/vg will not get regulated
flavors will not get regulated
in fact the worse that will happen is 1 of 2 things
1 FA may go out fo business because of regulations reducing the market...but they were in business before this so I doubt it.
In fact I would think that option 2
Flavors may go up in price since demand will be higher and none of these companies are truly ready for a mass influx of new DIY'ers. Look at the shortages we have from time to time now on flavors

The only concern is NIC. I got about 1 liter in the freezer now. that will last me about 3 years.

I more worried about the fact I suck at making coils and really need to get that down pat if shit gets regulated

 

[wllmc]

The only thing a DIYer should worry about is nic and I kinda doubt it will be the end of all end for us. flavoring/VG/PG is all common items used for so many different things. The biggest worry I see is for the guys selling premixed E-Lquid and shipping of the items. I see

I more worried about the fact I suck at making coils and really need to get that down pat if shit gets regulated

agreed with matt..... especially this ! hahahaa

 

[sk7175]

vaping has hurt the government's tax revenue from cigarettes more than expected. tax on nicotine will likely skyrocket.

 

[gopher_byrd]

I will probably stock up on nic as that is the one component of DIY that I suspect will get regulated/taxed. If push comes to shove I can get by vaping unflavored, but I doubt flavors will be regulated due to other uses. I just need to tell the wife we need to get a freezer...

The folks that use VV/VW/TC mods will be hit hard as none of those existed in 2007 and they are subject to failure. Also the folks that use not easily rebuildable attys will be hurt as they will not be able to get coils in the future. Kanthal and batteries have too many uses outside of vaping to get regulated, but I will stock up on kanthal as that doesn't go bad with age. Time for me to get some more bottom fed attys for my REOs and a bunch of rebuild kits for my REOs.

In short, mech mods with rebuildable attys and DIY is the way to survive vapeagedon...

 

[guyakaguy]

remember the .22LR shortage of the past couple years with obamas gun/ammo ban on the books?


there WILL be a scare, people WILL buy large amounts at inflated prices, then when the money making frenzy is over the bill WILL fall on its face and people WILL find workarounds.

i can still brew my own beer, grow my own tobacco, and in some US states i can grow my own "medicine"

there is workarounds. it will make it harder for new products to be available, the price of nic might go up a little but i dont think it will kill the industry or the DIY guys.

honestly id like to see fed regulations only because of the scary places and conditions some juices are made in that as mass marketed.

we cant expect this to be a "free" market for long, now can we?

I still have .22lr on order from April. Going on 7 months and the order still hasn't been filled. I figure eventually it will, but I hope the shop I ordered it from doesn't go out of business before I get it....

What I think is funny is that everybody wants to point the finger at Obama for "trying to take away their geeeeeeens". Personally, I think Obama is in bed with the gun/ammo manufacturers and used a bit of fear-mongering Chicago-style deep-dish gun regulation speech to drum up sales for them.

Surely I can't be the only one that thinks this.

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[TRAPstar]

I still have .22lr on order from April. Going on 7 months and the order still hasn't been filled. I figure eventually it will, but I hope the shop I ordered it from doesn't go out of business before I get it....

What I think is funny is that everybody wants to point the finger at Obama for "trying to take away their geeeeeeens". Personally, I think Obama is in bed with the gun/ammo manufacturers and used a bit of fear-mongering Chicago-style deep-dish gun regulation speech to drum up sales for them.

Surely I can't be the only one that thinks this.

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i lived in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina during that whole "gun ban" thing and we couldn't get .22 lr anywhere for a while...then suddenly walmart just restocked and never ran out again and so did local gun shops. i thought everywhere had recovered i can walk in to a gas station and get it where i live now near Clemson, SC

 

[Neunerball]

Worse case, I'll extract nicotine from tobacco plants. Get a test kit for nicotine. The rest, I don't worry about.

 

[guyakaguy]

Not here. I haven't seen much more than bare shelves here in the Twin-Cities, MN.

You can get your 9mm and .380 again, but I haven't seen .22 short, mag, lr, hell even shot-shell or blanks on shelves going on 8 years now. This must be Hoarder City, USA. We even have one of the largest ammo manufacturers RIGHT HERE IN MN (Federal Cartridge) and still can't find a shell of .22.





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[guyakaguy]

Every now and then somebody will mention something about seeing a box at a Walmart or at Fleet Farm (local "everything" store), but it's the old white buffalo.

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[z man]

I will trade one 22 l.r.bullet for one squirt of Juice....Z

 

[TRAPstar]

most of what we have is silver box winchester or remington. shot shells, mag, lr, what have you we got it.

 

[SailCat]

In short, mech mods with rebuildable attys and DIY is the way to survive vapeagedon...

I really don't like how accurate that statement is. I have a handful of mechs (over in that drawer, I thin, but definitely here somewhere) that haven't seen the light of day since I converted to the CRM (Church of the Regulated Mod).

 

[gopher_byrd]

I really don't like how accurate that statement is. I have a handful of mechs (over in that drawer, I thin, but definitely here somewhere) that haven't seen the light of day since I converted to the CRM (Church of the Regulated Mod).

When vapeagedon comes down the manufacturers will have to pay BIG bucks to get anything approved by the FDA and the FDA will drag their feet in the approval process and listen to their buds in BT's money. This means only cigalikes with sealed cartridges will get approved. I've heard too many stories of the regulated mods dieing. Who would be around to fix them since you won't be able to replace them? I don't know about you, but I'm not going to be using a Blu, or Vuse, or whatever model BT comes up with.

My motto: Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst...

 

[Neunerball]

When vapeagedon comes down the manufacturers will have to pay BIG bucks to get anything approved by the FDA and the FDA will drag their feet in the approval process and listen to their buds in BT's money. This means only cigalikes with sealed cartridges will get approved. I've heard too many stories of the regulated mods dieing. Who would be around to fix them since you won't be able to replace them? I don't know about you, but I'm not going to be using a Blu, or Vuse, or whatever model BT comes up with.

My motto: Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst...

Ditto!

 

[Thunderball]

I have nic in the freezer in glass that I will never use, about 3 litres and I only vape at a nic level of around 4mg nowadays. Im not worried about the rest. Too many uses for the flavorings and VG/PG.

I also couldnt care less about "plinking" targets with 22's. I have a few thousand rounds of SKS/AK47 ammo and about 1000 rounds of 45 ammo and likewise with .357 among other rounds. I dont see why 22's are so sought after. You can plink if you like......I will make monterous holes in whatever needs to have monterous holes in it... ....... but forever hoping nothing begs to have monsterous holes in it.

 

[sk7175]

I think the only thing affected will be nicotine, govt isn't going to chase after mod builders.

 

[TRAPstar]

BT is actually developing, and already testing VV/VW/TC mods (i think a trial of 1,200 stores in the US last i read) in gas stations.

i think in reality they only want regulations to control the market in their favor.

as we know Phillip Morris will have a much easier time dealing with the FDA than SmokTech would. To me all this says BT wants their hardware, juice, and supplies in our hands instead of Chinese products and DIY juices.

look at it this way, sure they make great money off smokers. think of your smoking supplies...okay ciggs and a lighter...

$4-8 going to them every day or few days.

only smokers smoke.

NOW look at the flip side, the vape side per say.

say there are bans and only their products are readily available, and you want new equipment or you want to start vaping.

(prices are estimated)

new VV/VW mod (PM brand) $49.99
$9.99 for tank (doubt they will have RBA or RDAs for liability reasons)
or if you are totally new lets say $79.99 for a "starter kit"

oops need juice.... no more cuttwood for a while
PM brand "cereal flavor" $9.99 for 30ml

average vaper might get what, 2-3 days out of that? myself, 1 day with maybe enough for my morning tank top off or drip to get me back to the gas station once again.

And i am sure they wont be labeled phillip morris products they will be off shoot companies or subsidiaries like Blu.
i also am confident they will have prices lower (just enough to notice) than the current market.

basically i think they want to reinvent vaping to suit their economic needs just like their current products.

the major benefit any accountant or CFO will see aside from the hardware they can now sell, its the fact that everyone vapes! not just smokers.. hell i dipped a can or more a day and i picked it up. people i know who never smoked or used any tobacco products vape... EVERYONE VAPES!

make sense? makes much more sense to me than them simply wanting vapers money back on tobacco products.


oh yeah, production costs too. i can imagine juice supplies will be cheaper to make than farming tobacco or buying off of farmers... huge profit margin so they can then pour more money into marketing their products in turn more profit.



Foot notes:

Step 1. push out non BT vape companies
step 2.
step 3.
step 4. profit
step 5. rub hands mischievously around board table.
step 6. dive into pool of gold like scrooge mcduck
step 7. find out that was just a cartoon *broken neck*
step 8. company still profits

conclusion we (the vapers) lose.

 

[gopher_byrd]

I think the only thing affected will be nicotine, govt isn't going to chase after mod builders.

You don't know our government very well. They will go after the little guys since they don't have the bucks to fight back... Even ProVape (ProVari maker) is a little guy compared to BT. It will be very easy for them to shut down B&Ms and the online vendors if they try to sell unapproved equipment. They won't let anything through customs so no more Fasttech or Chinese mods and they aren't going to pay the bucks to get approved unless they are the approved supplier for BT.

Yes I fear our government, both the Rupublicrats and the Demlicans...

 

[TRAPstar]

 

[guyakaguy]

View attachment 32063

They took our jaaaaaaaaaaabs!

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[TRAPstar]

They took our jaaaaaaaaaaabs!

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"Day toook ERRRR Vapez!

 

[Teresa P]

I don't think flavors will be an issue, after all they are made for food and beverages. I certainly don't see FA going out of business. For one thing, their government isn't full of lunatics and for another, we'd be rather pompous to think U.S. sales are the only ones keeping them afloat.
Pg is used in medicines, for animal feeds, food, and beverage (among other things), so can't really regulate that. Vg is used in soaps, lotions, cosmetics, and other sundries, can't really put restrictions on that either. And our batteries are made for flashlights, laptops, and many other small appliances. No bans there.
My main concern is nicotine and mods and tanks. I'm still stashing my freezer one small bottle at a time and will continue to do so till something happens. But I am concerned about being able to replace mods and tanks as they die or malfunction. I can make my own juice, wrap my own coils (although nothing fancy), and diagnose and repair simple tank issues, but if a mod malfunctions, I'm clueless.
If the worst does happen and we are forced into a communistic state regarding vaping, we are going to be put in a position to look out for one another. Perhaps we can trade off services and such to keep ourselves going till this nonsense is over. I believe as @Zamazam predicted, we are headed for another Prohibition.

 

[Mattp169]

someone will come up with a way to get around these regulations for mods and tanks i feel

but i do now more then ever feel the need to get a true rda/rta like a billow or goblin mini and maybe order an extra liter of nic

 

[stevegmu]

remember the .22LR shortage of the past couple years with obamas gun/ammo ban on the books?


there WILL be a scare, people WILL buy large amounts at inflated prices, then when the money making frenzy is over the bill WILL fall on its face and people WILL find workarounds.

i can still brew my own beer, grow my own tobacco, and in some US states i can grow my own "medicine"

there is workarounds. it will make it harder for new products to be available, the price of nic might go up a little but i dont think it will kill the industry or the DIY guys.

honestly id like to see fed regulations only because of the scary places and conditions some juices are made in that as mass marketed.

we cant expect this to be a "free" market for long, now can we?

Some of these vendors would have been out of business long ago, if for not taking advantage of the fears of others...