Random Pet Peeves..

[bugalien]

when something bad happens and people go on facebook and start talking about sending prayers. I know 95% of them don't even pray. Its just the new way of saying you feel bad about it.

It is like those chain emails that if you don't answer and email to everyone, you will be a bad person, or not be lucky enough to just happen upon that extra $100,000 you or your child needs for medical bills or something. It is just networking and some advertiser that profits from those. No matter how heartfelt it seems with sad photos and all, it is just money.

 

[forza]

When people pull into the middle of the intersection on the light even though they KNOW they can't pull close enough to the other car to not be IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FUCKING INTERSECTION when the light turns.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[FΛDED]

I went through unfriending some people on fb, then just unfriended fb altogether. I visit once every few months to read, but that is it.

Me too. I stopped FB also. It was fun first 5 years; logging on everyday checking FB throughout the day. Consumed a lot of time, at least it was for me. Hell, I like better, and I think Happy Birthdays from strangers in the vape community feel kinda' better.

IK, I'm weird.

I might surprise pop up too. Who knows.

 

[aquaholic2491]

I went through unfriending some people on fb, then just unfriended fb altogether. I visit once every few months to read, but that is it.

I did that once. I went about a month without it. I dont care about 95% of the posts but there are some funny memes and things people post. Also my local brick and mortar store throws discounts out on it. Also use it to setup bike meets around the area. I rarely post though. To me its better than reading a magazine at the barber shop, or reading the ingredients of soap while dropping a deuce. Its great to kill time, but bad to waste time that you could of spent elsewhere.

 

[USMCotaku]

random pet peeve...when you get more rain then your local ground can handle so the roads are washed out, yet people drive as if nothing is different, and cover your car with muddy water

This happened to me numerous times last night, a few so bad that I couldn't even see other cars headlights through the mud, and took my wipers awhile to clear off, even running the wash sprayer.

 

[bugalien]

Me too. I stopped FB also. It was fun first 5 years; logging on everyday checking FB throughout the day. Consumed a lot of time, at least it was for me. Hell, I like better, and I think Happy Birthdays from strangers in the vape community feel kinda' better.

IK, I'm weird.

I might surprise pop up too. Who knows.

I am just over it I guess. I got aggravated when people sent me candy crush invites and posted that anyone inviting me to lame games would be unfriended. Then came the times when I watched some previously good friends going all nuts about the blacklivesmatter, whitelivesmatter, rebel flag love and hate, everylife matters crap and realised that in a big way, fb is a good way for the government, big corporate companys, and media to pit all of us consumers against eachother and distract us from plenty of real things that are going on. Not falling into that bear trap and don't have the balls to call old friends and family out for falling for it as well. Just fuckitallintheear. Im out of there.

 

[FΛDED]

I am just over it I guess. I got aggravated when people sent me candy crush invites and posted that anyone inviting me to lame games would be unfriended. Then came the times when I watched some previously good friends going all nuts about the blacklivesmatter, whitelivesmatter, rebel flag love and hate, everylife matters crap and realised that in a big way, fb is a good way for the government, big corporate companys, and media to pit all of us consumers against eachother and distract us from plenty of real things that are going on. Not falling into that bear trap and don't have the balls to call old friends and family out for falling for it as well. Just fuckitallintheear. Im out of there.

 

[aquaholic2491]

Then came the times when I watched some previously good friends going all nuts about the blacklivesmatter, whitelivesmatter, rebel flag love and hate, everylife matters crap and realised that in a big way, fb is a good way for the government, big corporate companys, and media to pit all of us consumers against eachother and distract us from plenty of real things that are going on. Not falling into that bear trap and don't have the balls to call old friends and family out for falling for it as well. Just fuckitallintheear. Im out of there.

I think facebook is similar to cars. In that people feel safe to completely let every thing out because its not a face to face interaction. For example people throw me the bird all the time in cars. I cant remember the last time someone outside of a car in public did. People post a lot about current trends in news media, yet wont bring it up or voice their opinion strongly in a group setting with people that may not share their opinion. I have a bunch of liberal friends who think trump is the devil and anyone who could agree with his views are insane from the posts they make, yet no one has ever said it to my face.

 

[stmtpr]

My newest pet peeve is those fucking assholes the pull into a parking place facing a restaurant at night and leave their fucking headlights on. Lazy shits letting the auto function shut them off after several minutes of the lights blinding folks inside the restaurant.

 

[FΛDED]

Sticky buttons on things or missing buttons. At work, not my vape job, the keyboard at work, I'm missing a "Q" button, good thing, I try and not say any words with the letter Q, lol. SMH. Or when I visit the dental clinic, the TV remote, sticky.

Why keeping your hands clean goes a long way.

And btw, when shampoo bottles say "Rinse and repeat." Who does this? Please, do tell.
I wash my hair once, I found that I succeeded, accomplished my mission, and that's it.

 

[Huckleberried]

I hate going to the grocery, but I like food, so I have to go to the damn grocery. Never fails, when I'm there, I run across at least 6 pairs of people, each with a shopping cart, just standing in the middle of the aisle, at the ends of aisles, any random space they can park their damn carts, just running their yaps. I give them 2 seconds of me standing there, staring, then, "EXCUSE ME!"... "oh, I'm blocking the aisle". Yeah. Move.

 

[stmtpr]

I hate going to the grocery, but I like food, so I have to go to the damn grocery. Never fails, when I'm there, I run across at least 6 pairs of people, each with a shopping cart, just standing in the middle of the aisle, at the ends of aisles, any random space they can park their damn carts, just running their yaps. I give them 2 seconds of me standing there, staring, then, "EXCUSE ME!"... "oh, I'm blocking the aisle". Yeah. Move.

Wish I could double like this

 

[bugalien]

I hate going to the grocery, but I like food, so I have to go to the damn grocery. Never fails, when I'm there, I run across at least 6 pairs of people, each with a shopping cart, just standing in the middle of the aisle, at the ends of aisles, any random space they can park their damn carts, just running their yaps. I give them 2 seconds of me standing there, staring, then, "EXCUSE ME!"... "oh, I'm blocking the aisle". Yeah. Move.

Costco...

My daughter gets all giggly and embarrassed when I lose my shit in Costco. The isles are big enough for people not to block the way and it is stressful enough knowing that I will probably not make it out of there without being $300 lighter to wait in a very long line, even if I just went for a couple items. I will straight up threaten to run their fat asses over with the big cart. The looks I get are priceless.

 

[bugalien]

I think facebook is similar to cars. In that people feel safe to completely let every thing out because its not a face to face interaction. For example people throw me the bird all the time in cars. I cant remember the last time someone outside of a car in public did. People post a lot about current trends in news media, yet wont bring it up or voice their opinion strongly in a group setting with people that may not share their opinion. I have a bunch of liberal friends who think trump is the devil and anyone who could agree with his views are insane from the posts they make, yet no one has ever said it to my face.

^^^
I will flip someone off. Just get me in Costco or a grocery store. lol

 

[Khassy]

I hate going to the grocery, but I like food, so I have to go to the damn grocery. Never fails, when I'm there, I run across at least 6 pairs of people, each with a shopping cart, just standing in the middle of the aisle, at the ends of aisles, any random space they can park their damn carts, just running their yaps. I give them 2 seconds of me standing there, staring, then, "EXCUSE ME!"... "oh, I'm blocking the aisle". Yeah. Move.

I hate shopping for anything. If I can't get it online, I don't want it. Groceries is my husband's job. Our grocery store is HUGE, one of the biggest in the country allegedly, and I don't have the energy to walk very far. So he does the grocery shopping on his way home from work. Thank God. I'd starve to death without him. Or just eat junk from Amazon.

 

[stmtpr]

OK, got another one. Assholes that refuse to park the car while waiting on someone going inside and sit their asses in the fire lane. I've seen this alot at Walmart and Costco. SMFH

 

[stmtpr]

And what about the losers who are busy reading damn cell phones at red lights and look up just in time to get their selves ONLY thru the light when it turn green.

 

[USMCotaku]

people who fail to do a simple fact check before posting a "news story"
Someone just posted a "news" clip about how Trump's business plans is ruining the cattle futures. A quick jaunt over to nasdaq shows that the cattle futures plummeted to it's lowest point just prior to the election, and has been on a general climbing trend since.
People, a fact check is not hard.......and will save you from looking foolish when someone else does it for you.

 

[FΛDED]

And what about the losers who are busy reading damn cell phones at red lights and look up just in time to get their selves ONLY thru the light when it turn green.

Happens way too much here in Austin traffic, some of the worst in the US -.-

 

[AndriaD]

I hate going to the grocery, but I like food, so I have to go to the damn grocery. Never fails, when I'm there, I run across at least 6 pairs of people, each with a shopping cart, just standing in the middle of the aisle, at the ends of aisles, any random space they can park their damn carts, just running their yaps. I give them 2 seconds of me standing there, staring, then, "EXCUSE ME!"... "oh, I'm blocking the aisle". Yeah. Move.

And usually they weigh upwards of 300 lbs, so they're not just blocking PART of the aisle, but the ENTIRE aisle. And they have about 3 screaming krispy-kreme faced brats with them that they don't have the SENSE to tell SHUT THE FUCK UP OR I'M GONNA SLAP YOU SILLY!

My husband doesn't cut 'em any slack at all. I'v heard him say "get your fat ass outta the way!" Gawd I love that man.

Andria

 

[bugalien]

And usually they weigh upwards of 300 lbs, so they're not just blocking PART of the aisle, but the ENTIRE aisle. And they have about 3 screaming krispy-kreme faced brats with them that they don't have the SENSE to tell SHUT THE FUCK UP OR I'M GONNA SLAP YOU SILLY!

My husband doesn't cut 'em any slack at all. I'v heard him say "get your fat ass outta the way!" Gawd I love that man.

Andria

I do what he does. I got that from shopping with my dad and my best friend. I used to be mortified when someone mouthed off like that in public. Sometime after they both died, I picked up the habit. I guess life is just too short to be held up in the fuckin grocery! One of these days, ima get in trouble with that.

 

[AndriaD]

I do what he does. I got that from shopping with my dad and my best friend. I used to be mortified when someone mouthed off like that in public. Sometime after they both died, I picked up the habit. I guess life is just too short to be held up in the fuckin grocery! One of these days, ima get in trouble with that.

Yeah... I'm not sure which I hate worse, to be honest, fatasses blocking the entire aisle, or these total IMBECILES who had no business having any spawn at all, since they don't exert the SLIGHTEST attempt to restrain their brats' uncivilized behavior. My son sure never acted like that in public past the age of about 3 or 4; he got slapped a few times, and taken out to the car for a real spanking a couple times, so he learned, when mom or dad says HUSH NOW, they really mean it!!! What is so fucking hard about that????

Andria

 

[bugalien]

Yeah... I'm not sure which I hate worse, to be honest, fatasses blocking the entire aisle, or these total IMBECILES who had no business having any spawn at all, since they don't exert the SLIGHTEST attempt to restrain their brats' uncivilized behavior. My son sure never acted like that in public past the age of about 3 or 4; he got slapped a few times, and taken out to the car for a real spanking a couple times, so he learned, when mom or dad says HUSH NOW, they really mean it!!! What is so fucking hard about that????

Andria

I only have one kid but she once got a whoopin in a Target store. I didn't care about the law. She was only a few years old and snuck off to hide behind an aisle close to where the escalator was on the upper floor. Never run off and hide from me! I picked her up and opened a can o whoopass on her hiney. This old lady laughed when she saw that. Sometimes they just need a few whacks.

 

[AndriaD]

I only have one kid but she once got a whoopin in a Target store. I didn't care about the law. She was only a few years old and snuck off to hide behind an aisle close to where the escalator was on the upper floor. Never run off and hide from me! I picked her up and opened a can o whoopass on her hiney. This old lady laughed when she saw that. Sometimes they just need a few whacks.

My husband walloped our son once in the Ingles grocery, when the boy wouldn't shut up about some damn toy, just having a hissy fit about it, and we were broke as dirt at the time. Some people gave him the stinkeye about it... he faced them down and asked if they wanted some too.

On the other hand... I feel just as strongly about parents who feel the need to display very loudly how much of a hardass they are, to very small children, with all that ridiculous ma'am/sir shit, just making their child's life HELL and humiliating them in public for the most trifling transgression... that's totally uncalled for, out in public. If you haven't instilled a respectful attitude in your child in the privacy of your home, that doesn't give you the right to inflict your hardass stupid parenting style on every stranger within earshot -- true respect is shown by a happy child who actually listens to you when you talk to them, not by a little automaton who says ma'am or sir and cringes away from you in pure terror. Children learn respect BY BEING SHOWN IT.

Andria

 

[Rickajho]

We learned respect by being shown a yard stick.

 

[AndriaD]

We learned respect by being shown a yard stick.

That's fear, not respect. But if you actually listen to your child, and let them know that you value their opinion even if you can't always do things their way, they learn civility and respect. If you allow your child to feel their feelings, but let them know that if feeling their feelings is loud, then they can do it in their own room with the door closed... they learn boundaries, which is part of respect.

Expecting a child to know how to respect you when you've never shown them respect is just fucking backward. They have to see it and experience it to know what it is.

Andria

 

[Huckleberried]

OK, got another one. Assholes that refuse to park the car while waiting on someone going inside and sit their asses in the fire lane. I've seen this alot at Walmart and Costco. SMFH

Ohhh man. Yeah, that's BAD around here. Quite a while back, attempting to drive through that area, to get to a parking space, a car was parked there, then as we drove through, the guy pulled out, then cut us off. Granted we weren't going fast, but had to slam the breaks. Not only did the guy cut us off, but he proceded to do a U-turn. Well, former boyfriend starts staring the guy down, then starts mouthing off at him. We go on to a parking space, only to find this guy had followed us and was standing outside the car, waiting, mouthing off to us that he was waiting for his handicapped mom. This was no young guy standing there. Words were exchanged, then dude says, "Well if you got something else to say, I'm standing right here. I won't approach you." Former boyfriend says, "well that's the smartest choice you made all day." I'm just jaw dropped standing there.

People get shot for less, these days. I want no part of conflict. I was pissed at both guys, LOL.

 

[Rickajho]

That's fear, not respect. But if you actually listen to your child, and let them know that you value their opinion even if you can't always do things their way, they learn civility and respect. If you allow your child to feel their feelings, but let them know that if feeling their feelings is loud, then they can do it in their own room with the door closed... they learn boundaries, which is part of respect.

Expecting a child to know how to respect you when you've never shown them respect is just fucking backward. They have to see it and experience it to know what it is.

Andria

While that may be true one aspect of respect that has disappeared in this overly permissive society is any consequence for actions. If someone doesn't learn that their actions have consequences - for themselves and god forbid - for other people as well - there is no concept of respect either.

 

[USMCotaku]

The decline of spanking, and the rise in disrespectful little shits is definitely connected.

 

[freemind]

I hate going to the grocery, but I like food, so I have to go to the damn grocery. Never fails, when I'm there, I run across at least 6 pairs of people, each with a shopping cart, just standing in the middle of the aisle, at the ends of aisles, any random space they can park their damn carts, just running their yaps. I give them 2 seconds of me standing there, staring, then, "EXCUSE ME!"... "oh, I'm blocking the aisle". Yeah. Move.

I know how you feel. I HATE grocery shopping. If I have to go by myself, I can easily lose my shit on umpa loompa's blocking isles and holding me up. Christ, it takes me 2+ hours every week to get shopping done. People PISS me off. And when the snowbirds come back in spring, it get infinitely worse.....

 

[bugalien]

While that may be true one aspect of respect that has disappeared in this overly permissive society is any consequence for actions. If someone doesn't learn that their actions have consequences - for themselves and god forbid - for other people as well - there is no concept of respect either.

The couple times I really started to mouth off to my mom in public, got me a smack in the face that interrupted my tirade. It shocked me into thinking about what I said, but I was not afraid of geting slapped out of nowhere or anything. Put it this way: Mouthing off like that could potentially get me black and blue, and red if I did it to the wrong person. Consequences...

Like I explained to my kid when I gave her that public whoopin, "This hurts much less than you would if you had fallen down the escalator or got taken away by a stranger." Same thing when I spanked her bad after she ran into the road after a ball. She could have been killed and I really wanted her to remember that. If it takes an ass blistering, then that is what it is.

 

[AndriaD]

While that may be true one aspect of respect that has disappeared in this overly permissive society is any consequence for actions. If someone doesn't learn that their actions have consequences - for themselves and god forbid - for other people as well - there is no concept of respect either.

You're absolutely right, and I feel exactly the same way; just because we tried to dispense discipline with kindness doesn't mean we didn't dispense it at all -- he got a couple of real belt whippings at 5 and 6 yrs old, respectively, because we tried everything else first and got no positive results; that was all he ever needed; all we ever had to say after that was "do I have to get the belt?' to get INSTANT compliance. He's a real smart person.

When he was 7, he had a problem with an older kid up the street, so my husband and I walked up the street with him, to speak to that boy's mother. When she heard the situation, she directed her boy to apologize, and that little brat said "I ain't gon do it." Our son stood there amazed at that, and then more amazed when all she said to that was "Just wait till your dad gets home." On the way home, he said he couldn't believe that kid, telling his mom no like that, and then her not doing anything about it. I asked him what he thought might happen if he acted that way. He laughed and said he didn't think there was any "might" about it, he'd be picking himself up off the floor. I told him it might not be QUITE that drastic, but something along those lines -- and that he could count on receiving whatever he needed immediately, and not having it put off till his dad got home. Yet somehow, he and I have managed to always have a very close and enjoyable relationship.

Once he was about 7-8 yrs old, we really never had any discipline problems with him at all, and contrary to what we were told, he didn't turn into a moody monster in his teens, either -- yeah, he did get a little moody, hormones I guess, but he remained the same reasonable person he'd always been, and in fact the older he got, the better I liked him, though he and his dad had a few big dog/little dog power struggles along the way -- but he still remained respectful. I can only think that love, kindness, respect, and firm discipline and knowing the boundaries made him that way.

Andria

 

[aquaholic2491]

The couple times I really started to mouth off to my mom in public, got me a smack in the face that interrupted my tirade. It shocked me into thinking about what I said, but I was not afraid of geting slapped out of nowhere or anything. Put it this way: Mouthing off like that could potentially get me black and blue, and red if I did it to the wrong person. Consequences...

Oh man, i credit my grandfather (raised me) for my cat like reflexes. It only took a couple of back hands with his rings on to learn how to bob and weave. We even had a paddle with hearts on it (ironic). When that came out i knew to run to grandma.

 

[Rickajho]

Ya know, I'm not advocating corporal punishment. But there are times when you need to get a young kids attention - fast and to the point - that something they just did is a really bad idea.

 

[MrScaryZ]

Texas emblems embellished and carved into just about everything in Texas its a blatant show of how much money we have from the worlds largest cowboy boots with a Texas emblem on them to the bridge in the middle of fucking nowhere it is beyond annoying is not enough we live here ohhh no its not enough you have to be branded with it ..hahah WTF

 

[AndriaD]

Ya know, I'm not advocating corporal punishment. But there are times when you need to get a young kids attention - fast and to the point - that something they just did is a really bad idea.

It was really most valuable, merciful, and effective during the diaper years -- those plastic covers on disposable diapers make a hell of a racket, which definitely gets their attention, when they're still too young to be very responsive to speech, and of course the diaper prevents them from ever sustaining any injury or actual *pain* -- similar to "spanking" a dog with a rolled-up newspaper -- it doesn't hurt, but it's noisy!

The 2 occasions we had to finally resort to the belt were each 3 "licks" on a bare bottom, when for WEEKS we had tried other, progressively more strict measures, which did no good at all. Older kids can be motivated by such things as groundings, restrictions, loss of privileges, 5/6 yr olds, not so much, but a young child has to be made aware that running off out of sight in a neighborhood for hours, unsupervised, will NOT be tolerated -- most of us did that as kids, sure, but the world is a much different and more dangerous place now, for children. But I do recall receiving a similar punishment when I was 6 or 7, for a similar infraction, so maybe that will always be an intolerable activity for young children.

Andria

 

[aquaholic2491]

Texas emblems embellished and carved into just about everything in Texas its a blatant show of how much money we have from the worlds largest cowboy boots with a Texas emblem on them to the bridge in the middle of fucking nowhere it is beyond annoying is not enough we live here ohhh no its not enough you have to be branded with it ..hahah WTF

longhorn/ texas edition of every vehicle imaginable

 

[Khassy]

Texas emblems embellished and carved into just about everything in Texas its a blatant show of how much money we have from the worlds largest cowboy boots with a Texas emblem on them to the bridge in the middle of fucking nowhere it is beyond annoying is not enough we live here ohhh no its not enough you have to be branded with it ..hahah WTF

Nothing beats Texas pride!

 

[MrScaryZ]

Nothing beats Texas pride!

Do not get me wrong I would rather die in Texas then up north in that god forbidden frozen Tundra but dear god can you imagine the saving of not embedding a logo on every fucking item

 

[Khassy]

Do not get me wrong I would rather die in Texas then up north in that god forbidden frozen Tundra but dear god can you imagine the saving of not embedding a logo on every fucking item

Trust me, you aren't wrong about living up here. I was born and raised in El Paso, then moved to Hawaii for a long time, then moved to fucking Wisconsin. Ugh.

 

[Rickajho]

Do not get me wrong I would rather die in Texas then up north in that god forbidden frozen Tundra but dear god can you imagine the saving of not embedding a logo on every fucking item

Thass just to keep you oriented. No more stars? You mighta wandered into Mexico.

 

[MrScaryZ]

Trust me, you aren't wrong about living up here. I was born and raised in El Paso, then moved to Hawaii for a long time, then moved to fucking Wisconsin. Ugh.

From Hawaii to Wisconsin that is like just kinda weird I thought you were sane maybe not but I do love the Wisconsin Dells was just their a few years ago

 

[Khassy]

From Hawaii to Wisconsin that is like just kinda weird I thought you were sane maybe not but I do love the Wisconsin Dells was just their a few years ago

What can I say, love makes one do stupid shit.

 

[Rickajho]

Ok, I got one.

Threads where people ask a question, expecting an absolute:

What is the best RDTA?
What is the best battery?
Who is the best DIY supplier?
Where is the best place to get wire?

Gets bonus peeve points when you are expected to mind meld:

What is the best RDA for me?

 

[Khassy]

Ok, I got one.

Threads where people ask a question, expecting an absolute:

What is the best RDTA?
What is the best battery?
Who is the best DIY supplier?
Where is the best place to get wire?

Gets bonus peeve points when you are expected to mind meld:

What is the best RDA for me?

 

[celticluvr]

OK, got another one. Assholes that refuse to park the car while waiting on someone going inside and sit their asses in the fire lane. I've seen this alot at Walmart and Costco. SMFH

um I hope waiting for some to come out after returning the electric cart doesn't count, Fiance's dad puts up the cart and we wait on him to get back out of the store... those things are super slow outside.

Edited it to add that doesn't take more than 3 minutes tops

 

[Mike H.]

When you watch a build video and they have all this nice gear but use a dull piece of shit pair of scissors that cant cut the cotton and you see it pull to one side or the other of the coil...Buy some new scissors

 

[AndriaD]

Ok, I got one.

Threads where people ask a question, expecting an absolute:

What is the best RDTA?
What is the best battery?
Who is the best DIY supplier?
Where is the best place to get wire?

Gets bonus peeve points when you are expected to mind meld:

What is the best RDA for me?

Absolute tops in this regard is "what's the best ejuice?" Closely followed by "what's the best flavor?" Then of course there's "what's the best tobacco flavor?"

Jiminy christmas, there's only 40-lebben-dozen-CUBED choices. And we're supposed to know what THEIR tastebuds prefer???

Andria

 

[MyMagicMist]

Ya know, I'm not advocating corporal punishment. But there are times when you need to get a young kids attention - fast and to the point - that something they just did is a really bad idea.

I tap my dog children with a stick. The tap is quick, direct, not abusive yet provides the "do I have your attention", gesture. By tap, yes I mean exactly that and that only, it is merely enough they register feeling it. I likely would do roughly the same with human children. Of course, I also would not have qualms offering a few quick open palm butt swats either, just enough to sting a bit ... "do I got your attention? Brain out of your butt now?"

 

[MyMagicMist]

I have a rather large all encompassing "new" pet peeve, which I do not claim as pet for then I need to feed it. Any given, I very much have strong disdain, near loathing that society at large was designed to be laden with inequality, the only way you ever achieve anything is being one of the 'haves' "class" to start out. Simply put I hate the axiom, rich get richer, poor get poorer. I know it is the 'truth' of our world and has seemingly always been. I am tired of every day being "more of the same", tired of Orwell's boot stomping a human face and sick and tired of being sick and tired.

*deep relieved and contemplative sigh* Whew!. Writing that out helped a bit but no where near enough, thanks the same though.