STS will be shutting down website due to FDA

[Mattp169]

ok politics has nothing to do with dems or repubs. they are both 2 sides of the same coin. Politics is all about power and money
someone wants more money and power, the fda is the weapon you are correct. Vaping is a big industry that has cut into BT. so while that staement may suggest that would mean if you kill the vaping industry you put the money back in BT and the govt's hands?????

NO

many vapors will go underground or blackmarket what have you. and many will justnot go back to tobacco. so thats not the ideal situation for the federal govt and BT to make money.

So they want vaping to be legal and around. They (BT and the govt) just want a much bigger cut of it.

this whole OH MY GOD THE SKY IS FALLING is exactly what they want you to think. so when they make it less worse then it is, you will be relieved and happy. and by YOU I dont mean the educated people who visit forums. I mena the average joe vapor who doesnt read much on these forums and is just trying to stay off cigs

the govt and BT want you to think the sky is falling. it benefits them. BT could come riding in to the rescue with their cig alikes being the first FDA approved vape devices. Then they are heroes to the average joe

Tobacco use is declining. BT needs a new cource of income. Vaping is that source of income. SO they need small businesses out of the market or severely handicapped. HENCE the FDA is their weapon to do so.

 

[Deucesjack]

Which is bizarre to me, because I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume there are a large number of vapers who have traditionally thought of themselves as die hard democrats. Way to completely fuck your constituents.

That's my whole point. You hear all these big mouth advocacy people running around chirping about their right to vape but as soon as you mention this is a Democratic sponsored and supported action all you hear are crickets. Hypocrites, all of them.

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[Deucesjack]

ok politics has nothing to do with dems or repubs. they are both 2 sides of the same coin. Politics is all about power and money
someone wants more money and power, the fda is the weapon you are correct. Vaping is a big industry that has cut into BT. so while that staement may suggest that would mean if you kill the vaping industry you put the money back in BT and the govt's hands?????

NO

many vapors will go underground or blackmarket what have you. and many will justnot go back to tobacco. so thats not the ideal situation for the federal govt and BT to make money.

So they want vaping to be legal and around. They (BT and the govt) just want a much bigger cut of it.

this whole OH MY GOD THE SKY IS FALLING is exactly what they want you to think. so when they make it less worse then it is, you will be relieved and happy. and by YOU I dont mean the educated people who visit forums. I mena the average joe vapor who doesnt read much on these forums and is just trying to stay off cigs

the govt and BT want you to think the sky is falling. it benefits them. BT could come riding in to the rescue with their cig alikes being the first FDA approved vape devices. Then they are heroes to the average joe

Tobacco use is declining. BT needs a new cource of income. Vaping is that source of income. SO they need small businesses out of the market or severely handicapped. HENCE the FDA is their weapon to do so.

Right, and that new stream of income is being handed to BT by the Democrats. It's a fact look it up. Oh, believe me politics and money have everything to do with this.

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[Mattp169]

Right, and that new stream of income is being handed to BT by the Democrats. It's a fact look it up.

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what source of income are you refferring to?

 

[Deucesjack]

what source of income are you refferring to?

What source of income? For starters let start with the BS application fees the fda is charging, licensing fees, taxes, campaign contributions to the crooked politicians, money paid to the tobacco lobbyists. How about the source of income BT will have when it becomes clear our own government set them up in their own little oligarchy? Shall I go on? Again this is not being done to protect children, vapers, or the public in general. This is all about money, greed, poltics, and control, nothing else.

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[Mattp169]

What source of income? For starters let start with the BS application fees the fda is charging, licensing fees, taxes, campaign contributions to the crooked politicians, money paid to the tobacco lobbyists. How about the source of income BT will have when it becomes clear our own government set them up in their own little oligarchy? Shall I go on? Again this is not being done to protect children, vapers, or the public in general. This is all about money, greed, poltics, and control, nothing else.

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that is my point
vaping will not go away.
BT and the govt's (plural, both fed and state) want their cut of the market. And by declaring vape products as "tobacco" products the FDA cleared the door for states and the fed to tax vape products the same as cigarettes WITHOUT passing new laws or anything else. This also allows the states to demand a cut of the vape sales BT makes to go towards the tobacco settlements.

Getting rid of vaping does not help the govts or BT.

 

[Deucesjack]

that is my point
vaping will not go away.
BT and the govt's (plural, both fed and state) want their cut of the market. And by declaring vape products as "tobacco" products the FDA cleared the door for states and the fed to tax vape products the same as cigarettes WITHOUT passing new laws or anything else. This also allows the states to demand a cut of the vape sales BT makes to go towards the tobacco settlements.

Getting rid of vaping does not help the govts or BT.

Never said they were trying to get rid of vaping. I said vaping as we know it is going away. Yes for those of us that look there will always be a black market. I feel bad for the guy that wants to quit smoking and does not have easy access to all the products that were available to us at one time. Bottom line is people, especially vapers need to start voting for representatives that are for a less intrusive government even if it means crossing party lines. If you vote for someone that does not represent your interests then you my friend are part of the problem.

 

[Mattp169]

Never said they were trying to get rid of vaping. I said vaping as we know it is going away. Yes for those of us that look there will always be a black market. I feel bad for the guy that wants to quit smoking and does not have easy access to all the products that were available to us at one time. Bottom line is people, especially vapers need to start voting for representatives that are for a less intrusive government even if it means crossing party lines. If you vote for someone that does not represent your interests then you my friend are part of the problem.

i agree w/ you up until your bottom line statement. It dont matter who you vote for. They are all there for themselves not to represent us. They ar ein it for the money and power. Being a politician is not about doing the right thing for the people you represent. Its about doing the best thing for you and your carreer. Remember these guys became politians as a JOB. that means they need to do everything they can to extend their careers. Until we get rid of politicians we are all screwed unless you have power or money already and politicians can use you to obtain more power and money for themselves

 

[Deucesjack]

Lol, spoken like a true Trump supporter.

i agree w/ you up until your bottom line statement. It dont matter who you vote for. They are all there for themselves not to represent us. They ar ein it for the money and power. Being a politician is not about doing the right thing for the people you represent. Its about doing the best thing for you and your carreer. Remember these guys became politians as a JOB. that means they need to do everything they can to extend their careers. Until we get rid of politicians we are all screwed unless you have power or money already and politicians can use you to obtain more power and money for themselves

Lol, spoken like a true Trump supporter.

 

[Mattp169]

Lol, spoken like a true Trump supporter.


Lol, spoken like a true Trump supporter.

i dont support trump or any of these idiots running for office. they are all useless.
the presedential election is just a media show to keep everyone pacified and entertained

 

[jackmormon]

Its all about the money...who has it, who can use it lobby for laws/rules that will help make them more money, etc. It is very unfortunate and I don't really think anybody knows how it is going to play out.

I for one will just quit vaping and nicotine if it comes down to it. I will never purchase anything from Big Tobacco again.

Now they got me wondering if the FDA should protect us from freely being able to purchase eggplants, tomatoes, potatoes, broccoli or cauliflower? They all contain nicotine! Are they now delivery devices?

 

[CorallineAlgae]

Fucking sucks that we can't have our freedoms in the USA unless the government can make a profit off them.

 

[gtrovil]

I don't really see the 70+ year old Trump or Clinton being vape friendly. It's Congress is where this gets fixed. And then I have to wonder....hmm....the House is majority Republican and the Senate is razor thin. So how can this ALL be the fault of the minority party (in this case the Democrats). Are we saying the Republicans were asleep again when all this stuff happens? We, all of us, knew the possible outcome of the deeming back at least in late 2014. Seems like plenty of time to question and/or change minds....for BOTH parties. (And for what it's worth I hate both sides. Am disgusted by our "choices" for POTUS. And am not very hopeful for our immediate prospects.)

Also the main thing that made me try vaping in the first place was the 5000% tax hike that Obama slapped on rolling tobacco in his FIRST term.

 

[Deucesjack]

I don't really see the 70+ year old Trump or Clinton being vape friendly. It's Congress is where this gets fixed. And then I have to wonder....hmm....the House is majority Republican and the Senate is razor thin. So how can this ALL be the fault of the minority party (in this case the Democrats). Are we saying the Republicans were asleep again when all this stuff happens? We, all of us, knew the possible outcome of the deeming back at least in late 2014. Seems like plenty of time to question and/or change minds....for BOTH parties. (And for what it's worth I hate both sides. Am disgusted by our "choices" for POTUS. And am not very hopeful for our immediate prospects.)

Also the main thing that made me try vaping in the first place was the 5000% tax hike that Obama slapped on rolling tobacco in his FIRST term.

Again, look at the reps that are supporting the legislation. All Democrats except for one. Hillary would definitely go after vapers. Trump has said time and time again that he wants government out of our lives. He has repeatedly gone after the FDA, EPA, and IRS. People just don't want to see whats right in front of them when it conflicts with their ingrained political beliefs. I in no way am saying that Republicans have all the answers but history has proven that they are in general far less govenment orientated than the Democrats. You have a much better chance for less regulation with a Republican than you do with a Democrat. That's been proven over and over.

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[gtrovil]

Vaping is not even in Trump's lexicon. He has no clue what it is about guaranteed. I see things perfectly fine for what they are. If something gets to the Potential Trump desk we will need Tyrion Lannister whispering in his ear. lol It's easy to talk and believe how great things will be. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Deucesjack]

Maybe so but I KNOW what the Democrats are about. Again look at who is behind the legislation. Sorry you refuse to see this.

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[gtrovil]

There is NO legislation yet. There is only the FDA lumping vaping in with tobacco. As I state above it is up to Congress now to actually PRODUCE some legislation. HR2058 is the first step. Neither side has done anything yet but flap gums. Sorry you refuse to understand this.

 

[Time]

There is NO legislation yet. There is only the FDA lumping vaping in with tobacco. As I state above it is up to Congress now to actually PRODUCE some legislation. HR2058 is the first step. Neither side has done anything yet but flap gums. Sorry you refuse to understand this.

Not so. The legislation that gave the FDA the power to deem vaping as a tobacco product was in 2009. The same Democrat controlled Congress, Senate and Democrat Obama President that passed Obamacare passed the The Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act.

The vaping regulations are a pure product of the Democrats. Obama's Whitehouse approved the Deeming. The Republicans have opposed the deeming with the bill, not that it will do any good. Obama will veto it.

 

[gtrovil]

Yes old outdated legislation being used as a public interest dipping net by the FDA. And they will get away with it unless and until clarification is given. And that could take a LOOOOONNNNGGG time. Time that we ain't got. Vaping still wasn't a thing in 2009. It was gathering some steam but I mean seriously....what devices were you using in 2009? This is the argument. The FDA is saying "We were given the right to run this industry into the ground because we're saying it's ALL tobacco now!" and unless Congress rectifies that position NOW we are screwed. Yep.

 

[Time]

@Deucesjack is correct, but I'm not mad about it. I find it fitting. I'm enjoying liberal vaping voters squirm now that a regulation they don't like effects them. They didn't give a shit when others were effected by Obamacare or any number of other regulations to "save the planet" or "save people". Now they get to reap what they have sown. They get know how it feels to be fucked by liberal government overreach. I'm enjoying their pain.

 

[gtrovil]

I was a smoker in 2009. I hated it then. I hate it now.

 

[Time]

Yes old outdated legislation being used as a public interest dipping net by the FDA. And they will get away with it unless and until clarification is given. And that could take a LOOOOONNNNGGG time. Time that we ain't got. Vaping still wasn't a thing in 2009. It was gathering some steam but I mean seriously....what devices were you using in 2009? This is the argument. The FDA is saying "We were given the right to run this industry into the ground because we're saying it's ALL tobacco now!" and unless Congress rectifies that position NOW we are screwed. Yep.

It's not old or outdated. The legislation is being used just as it was meant to. It is what the Dems wanted. You don't see any Dems opposing the regs because it's what they wanted when they passed the act.

 

[Deucesjack]

Not so. The legislation that gave the FDA the power to deem vaping as a tobacco product was in 2009. The same Democrat controlled Congress, Senate and Democrat Obama President that passed Obamacare passed the The Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act.

The vaping regulations are a pure product of the Democrats. Obama's Whitehouse approved the Deeming. The Republicans have opposed the deeming with the bill, not that it will do any good. Obama will veto it.

It doesn't matter Bro. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. He's a perfect example of how all these Democrat vapers refuse to see what is plainly in front them. Just a bunch of hypocrites. They all want to bitch and moan about their right to vape but refuse to place the blame squarely where it belongs. I actually feel bad for these types. I hope I am never so ingrained in one political party that I refuse to be intellectually honest with myself. Thats the shame of it all.

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[Deucesjack]

@Deucesjack is correct, but I'm not mad about it. I find it fitting. I'm enjoying liberal vaping voters squirm now that a regulation they don't like effects them. They didn't give a shit when others were effected by Obamacare or any number of other regulations to "save the planet" or "save people". Now they get to reap what they have sown. They get know how it feels to be fucked by liberal government overreach. I'm enjoying their pain.

I'd be enjoying it more if the pain didn't innvolve me.

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[gtrovil]

Here is a link to the actual vote from a 2009 Washington Post article. Sure are a lot of Republicans on that House vote. (7 more for a total of 23 voted yes). They were not asleep folks. Not asleep.


http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/111/senate/1/votes/207/



Dur....my bad Senate I meant.

 

[Time]

I'd be enjoying it more if the pain didn't innvolve me.

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It doesn't hurt me anymore. I've been fucked by legislation/regulation/tax so many times that my ass doesn't even get sore any more. But I do enjoy hearing the squeals when those that voted for the legislators find their virgin ass's poked the first time. They don't care if a rancher loses his livelihood for fake "envirenmental" shit but they scream like alter boys under a priest when the government messes with their vaping. I'm enjoying it. Maybe that's wrong.

 

[Deucesjack]

Here is a link to the actual vote from a 2009 Washington Post article. Sure are a lot of Republicans on that House vote. (7 more for a total of 23 voted yes). They were not asleep folks. Not asleep.


http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/111/senate/1/votes/207/



Dur....my bad Senate I meant.

Dude, They even color coded it for you. Can't you see it had overwhelming Democratic support? Smfh!

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[gtrovil]

LOL! The Clintons (ALL of them) make my skin crawl. I cannot stand Donald Trump. You aren't even going to look at the link? A former Republican front runner for POTUS voted yes. And the fact remains that it wasn't intended to have any consequence in terms of vaping because it didn't even exist. Currently this is the FDA overstepping their bounds waiting for someone or something to reel them in. If nobody does anything they win. If we can't come together and speak as one voice on this they win. The whole "you idiots screwed us all" thing isn't going to do it. Holding up signs that say the infamous "Hooray for our side!" isn't gonna get it done.

 

[gtrovil]

Dude, They even color coded it for you. Can't you see it had overwhelming Democratic support? Smfh!

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Dude it was a majority vote. Who had the majority. McCain voted yes fer chrissakes.

 

[Deucesjack]

Dude it was a majority vote. Who had the majority. McCain voted yes fer chrissakes.

Lol, McCains not a Republican. He's the head of the RINO party. Lol

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[Time]

Here is a link to the actual vote from a 2009 Washington Post article. Sure are a lot of Republicans on that House vote. (7 more for a total of 23 voted yes). They were not asleep folks. Not asleep.


http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/111/senate/1/votes/207/



Dur....my bad Senate I meant.

54 Dems. Even if every R voted no, the bill would have passed. But hey, spin it any way you like. They like your defending them even while they've bent you over.

 

[Deucesjack]

54 Dems. Even if ever R voted no, the bill would have passed. But hey, spin it any way you like. They like your defending them even while they've bent you over.

Lol, it really is ridiculous.

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[gtrovil]

I voted for McCain for President! lol Even though he had that idiot Palin on the ticket.



I live in Georgia, I don't have to declare right up until I go to vote. I get to vote for whoever I please. And I always vote to throw the bastards out.

 

[Time]

Dude it was a majority vote. Who had the majority. McCain voted yes fer chrissakes.

Dems had the majority. 54 out of 100 = 54%

 

[Deucesjack]

I voted for McCain for President! lol Even though he had that idiot Palin on the ticket.

My point exactly, he's not a Republican.

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[gtrovil]

Well I mean you only have so many choices when it comes time to vote for President. You do understand that part right?

 

[Deucesjack]

I think having a Political Science degree gives me a pretty good understanding of it.

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[JuicyLucy]

Dude, They even color coded it for you. Can't you see it had overwhelming Democratic support? Smfh!

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Twenty-three out of 41 Republicans voted for it, (2 missed the vote) so the GOP does not get off scott free like you guys are postulating

And they are manipulating guys like you like you are puppets if you believe it is strictly a liberal mantra

GOP lawmakers are sitting back laughing and just letting the left run with it (and take the heat) while politicians on both sides of the aisle continue to line their pockets with expensive gifts and out of control corporate contributions from BT and BP

As a long-time and keen political observer, I've found those on the ground spewing the most hatred and calling others names are the ones with the least acumen about how the party they back is screwing them and they never even see it.

If you think vaping can prevail if you only run around calling liberals vile names you are kidding yourself big time and all vapers lose.

Think about it.

 

[Time]

Well I mean you only have so many choices when it comes time to vote for President. You do understand that part right?

I disagree. I've never voted for an R or D for President yet. And, I always vote.

 

[Deucesjack]

Twenty-three out of 41 Republicans voted for it, (2 missed the vote) so the GOP does not get off scott free like you guys are postulating

And they are manipulating guys like you like you are puppets if you believe it is strictly a liberal mantra

GOP lawmakers are sitting back laughing and just letting the left run with it (and take the heat) while politicians on both sides of the aisle continue to line their pockets with expensive gifts and out of control corporate contributions from BT and BP

As a long-time and keen political observer, I've found those on the ground spewing the most hatred and calling others names are the ones with the least acumen about how the party they back is screwing them and they never even see it.

If you think vaping can prevail if you only run around calling liberals vile names you are kidding yourself big time and all vapers lose.

Think about it.

Really? Right out the liberal playbook. Who did I call a vile name? You guys really need to change tactics. This is getting real old.

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[gtrovil]

Wow. This is why vaping loses. Ok. Have fun.

 

[Time]

Twenty-three out of 41 Republicans voted for it, (2 missed the vote) so the GOP does not get off scott free like you guys are postulating

And they are manipulating guys like you like you are puppets if you believe it is strictly a liberal mantra

GOP lawmakers are sitting back laughing and just letting the left run with it (and take the heat) while politicians on both sides of the aisle continue to line their pockets with expensive gifts and out of control corporate contributions from BT and BP

As a long-time and keen political observer, I've found those on the ground spewing the most hatred and calling others names are the ones with the least acumen about how the party they back is screwing them and they never even see it.

If you think vaping can prevail if you only run around calling liberals vile names you are kidding yourself big time and all vapers lose.

Think about it.

Your reading more into it than what I've said. I'm not party affiliated. The act was passed by democrats. That is all. I can name some legislation that R's passed that I don't care for too, if that will help. But it's legislation, not regulation.

 

[JuicyLucy]

Wow. This is why vaping loses. Ok. Have fun.

You got that right

 

[Deucesjack]

Wow. This is why vaping loses. Ok. Have fun.

Vaping loses because vapers keep voting for people that think they know whats best for us.

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[retrox]

http://www.lp.org/

Just gonna leave that here and mosey along...

 

[juicy76]

BLACK MARKET! Damn


VAPE ON

Im in lol. Covert op. sales for vaping.(singing mission impossible theme song in my head)

 

[JuicyLucy]

Im in lol. Covert op. sales for vaping.(singing mission impossible theme song in my head)

Are you my cousin?

 

[mr vaper]

Looking at the website
I don't see anything that I like, maybe a tshirt or something

What is that site I'm always looking for a good deal

 

[juicy76]

Are you my cousin?

Lol I will be anything that I need to be when I am in desperate need of a new mod after the FDA bans everything

 

[saytar]

I'd be enjoying it more if the pain didn't innvolve me.

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Then manage the pain....as a great man once said "Wars are not won by hurting for your country, but making the other poor bastard feel the intense pain for his".................Sorry I plagerized that comment.....

Time to vote any 2 term or longer politician out of office............and buy stocks in tar, feathers and railroad ties.................Oh and put some "puts" on pitchforks too!!!