The Atheists Thread...A place for Logical, Rational and Scientific thinking with facts

[No Ash More Cash]

My feelings on that are: If you are gay, just shut up and be gay. I have yet to see a heterosexual pride day...or parade, or picnic. Same thing is you are black or a jew....just be one. As soon as we declare ourselves "special"...we separate ourselves from the mainstream, and subsequently define ourselves as different...and will be treated as such. It is said that "All men are created equal"....this is not a philosophy that is exclusive to faith or secular belief...it is just SO. I meet a person, and through discourse and time, I determine that this is a pleasant person to be around and exchange ideas. I see this as a person...and no different than myself...not unlike how most children view each other. All things are pleasantly equal, and assuming that in the course of that relationship there is a just and equitable give and take...there is peace. When a person declares that they are gay , or an atheist, or whathaveyou....then it is not uncommon for the other to stop considering them a "person"...but now a "different person". Subsequently the treatment becomes different, and what began as unity, has now ventured into a tribal division. This is the fundamental basis of faith....to judge NOT the person...but the actions of that person. When a man tells me that he is gay....that does not affect me, as those things which define his gayness, are not a factor in our amicable and platonic relationship. What one believes or does, is THEIR matter, and unless it becomes an extrinsic factor in a relationship, it is irrelevant.

The same could be said (In bold in your quote) about being Religious and not to push it on people specially when it crosses in to government that it can sway, Laws or pushed on kids at schools...The amount of people that have tried to pushed it on me at my home (Mostly jehovah's witness) and at work isn't even funny

 

[MKPM]

The same could be said (In bold in your quote) about being Religious and not to push it on people specially when it crosses in to government that it can sway, Laws or pushed on kids at schools...The amount of people that have tried to pushed it on me at my home (Mostly jehovah's witness) and at work isn't even funny

I agree.
If you want to pray before class...then just shut up and do it. In my ministry, I do not preach, but LISTEN. This is what people want....and in the Book of Matthew, we are ordered "If they will not hear your words, then brush the dust off of your feet as you leave their house and village".....as was questioned earlier in this thread....to "brush the dust off of your feet" implies that you leave the house just as it was when you entered. It is also said by Jesus in Matthew "Whoever has ears, let them hear"....now, everyone has ears...but to "Have ears" implies a desire to listen in this context.
Evengelists are charged to scatter seeds...not tend the tree. Sadly, 90% of all evangelists fail to heed the words of He who sent them.

 

[No Ash More Cash]

I agree.
If you want to pray before class...then just shut up and do it. In my ministry, I do not preach, but LISTEN. This is what people want....and in the Book of Matthew, we are ordered "If they will not hear your words, then brush the dust off of your feet as you leave their house and village".....as was questioned earlier in this thread....to "brush the dust off of your feet" implies that you leave the house just as it was when you entered. It is also said by Jesus in Matthew "Whoever has ears, let them hear"....now, everyone has ears...but to "Have ears" implies a desire to listen in this context.
Evengelists are charged to scatter seeds...not tend the tree. Sadly, 90% of all evangelists fail to heed the words of He who sent them.

I forgot to add in my last post...being "gay" "black"..ect is a civil rights thing they are born that way... you are never born religious.. that is pushed on you and for the most part at a early age by parents ...Also the church should have NO say or have NO part when it comes to Government, Laws or ANYTHING that affects me...For one thing they don't even pay tax...put some money in the kitty and then let's talk but they can't have their cake and eat it...I'm sure just by statistics a lot of politicians aren't religious but they have to play the religious card because they know they will never win... A article I found about closet politician Atheists http://thinkprogress.org/election/2014/08/26/3475792/why-there-are-no-atheists-in-congress/
It's pretty fucked up IMO

 

[MKPM]

I dunno....it just seems like you are pushing an agenda when you continuously claim not to. At any rate, enjoy your thread...it seems quite popular with all the other atheist.

 

[No Ash More Cash]

I agree.
If you want to pray before class...then just shut up and do it. In my ministry, I do not preach, but LISTEN. This is what people want....and in the Book of Matthew, we are ordered "If they will not hear your words, then brush the dust off of your feet as you leave their house and village".....as was questioned earlier in this thread....to "brush the dust off of your feet" implies that you leave the house just as it was when you entered. It is also said by Jesus in Matthew "Whoever has ears, let them hear"....now, everyone has ears...but to "Have ears" implies a desire to listen in this context.
Evengelists are charged to scatter seeds...not tend the tree. Sadly, 90% of all evangelists fail to heed the words of He who sent them.

I watch Evengelists on TV all the time and all I see is a scam for money...I really and truly feel bad for the people who get suckered in

 

[No Ash More Cash]

I dunno....it just seems like you are pushing an agenda when you continuously claim not to. At any rate, enjoy your thread...it seems quite popular with all the other atheist.

I will admit...It becomes a "agenda" when it effects me and my family or just common sense...What I have posted are just facts and some sad ones at that...If atheist politicians are swayed by the religious and know if he/she comes out he/she don't have a chance...Again IMO thats pretty fucked up...So much for separation of church and state...The other thing as well this isn't just for Atheists it's for everyone...Like what I said before it's a thread for people who want to talk/post something with substance

 

[No Ash More Cash]

Vatican Astronomer Says Alien Life Will Be Discovered, But Will Not Prove or Disprove God
From our friends at CP http://www.christianpost.com/news/v...ed-but-will-not-prove-or-disprove-god-126813/
Pope Francis says he would baptise aliens: 'Who are we to close doors?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...cis-says-he-would-baptise-aliens-9360632.html
The church has come along way from saying Earth was the center of the universe

 

[bobsyeruncle]

Herd Immunity. It's being discussed on that other forum in a thread about vaccines. But I think it could apply to gays and other repressed minorities. By coming out and declaring yourself to be gay, you increase awareness in the community and, by being visible in numbers, you demand a certain level of respect. Otherwise, society is liable to not recognize certain basic rights like being in a sexual relationship with another consenting adult of your preferred gender and even getting married. No one should want to revive those horrible sodomy laws turning certain behaviours, stemming from the natural expression of certain genes, that really don't affect other people, turning otherwise law-abiding citizens into felons.

 

[kelli]

i don't believe in God or atheists.

 

[bobsyeruncle]

That's okay. Atheists still believe in you.

 

[TheWestPole]

That's okay. Atheists still believe in you.

Super omnia.

 

[TheWestPole]

i don't believe in God or atheists.

"She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist."

Jean-Paul Sartre

 

[kelli]

"She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist."

Jean-Paul Sartre

yeah....that.

 

[MKPM]

Separation of church and state refers to state run religion, where this is not allowance for religious freedom, including the ability to not subscribe to ANY religion.

 

[MKPM]

I will also caution one from confusing fact with popular consensus. For example...Webster's Dictionary contains definitions that are not always based in fact or truth...but merely a widely agreed upon explanation. Research will find that it was also commonly held that Webster was quite mad.

 

[MKPM]

I also note that you restrict your findings of fallacy in religion and nowhere else....this also flies in the face of your OP. I like your thread, but you do continuously contradict your intentions.

 

[Adrienne]

Was waiting for this ...It's just a saying
I don't think ""Leftie UCLA Wacko's" would have done something like that and I can't find anything even close... The other thing is... I would have posted it if was any other Religion...My question to you is...If that Video was another Religion (Muslim, jew..Ect would you have been all over it like you have with this one?

As a Leftie UCLA Wacko atheist (well, I went to Grinnell College, but I've audited several classes at UCLA), I can attest that eagles just can't get enough of us, in fact. Case in point, recent pic a friend took of me at a Leftie UCLA Wacko park we all frequent:

Sorry, saw some discussion about my people, and couldn't resist. Back to Sartre and stuff...

 

[No Ash More Cash]

As a Leftie UCLA Wacko atheist (well, I went to Grinnell College, but I've audited several classes at UCLA), I can attest that eagles just can't get enough of us, in fact. Case in point, recent pic a friend took of me at a Leftie UCLA Wacko park we all frequent:

Sorry, saw some discussion about my people, and couldn't resist. Back to Sartre and stuff...

Very Cool pic!... Welcome to the thread and hope you come back...I hope you read what was said before my post and didn't take mine out of context...I was saying I don't think us " Atheist Leftie Wackos" would have done such a thing to a bird or animal like that...Letting it go in a enclosed building And shouting "USA" and making such a noise at the poor thing and scaring the shit out of it and then laughing at it crashing in a window while it was trying to get away from the idiots...And before everyone jumps on me for saying "idiots"...I think the people who organized that advent and the people who were shouting are fucking idiots to do such a thing to a creature like that!!...If you are going to do something like that...DO IT OUTSIDE!!
BTW... the reason I'm so pissed off about this is...The Eagle is my favorite animal

 

[No Ash More Cash]

I also note that you restrict your findings of fallacy in religion and nowhere else....this also flies in the face of your OP. I like your thread, but you do continuously contradict your intentions.

I guess it's like the Bible...It's all down to interpretation

 

[No Ash More Cash]

FDA head to step down, chief scientist taking over
http://news.yahoo.com/head-fda-stepping-down-chief-scientist-over-143556691--politics.html
I hope they get rid of ex Monsanto executive and lobbyist Michael Taylor, .. Deputy Commissioner for Foods and Veterinary Medicine next
http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/CentersOffices/OfficeofFoods/ucm196721.htm
Monsanto/FDA and Revolving Doors

More info on GMO'S and Revolving Doors

 

[TheWestPole]

As a Leftie UCLA Wacko atheist (well, I went to Grinnell College, but I've audited several classes at UCLA), I can attest that eagles just can't get enough of us, in fact. Case in point, recent pic a friend took of me at a Leftie UCLA Wacko park we all frequent:

Sorry, saw some discussion about my people, and couldn't resist. Back to Sartre and stuff...

Hello sistah!

 

[TheWestPole]

I also note that you restrict your findings of fallacy in religion and nowhere else....this also flies in the face of your OP. I like your thread, but you do continuously contradict your intentions.

Philosophy of the past century has concerned itself as much with the unquestioned authority of science as with that of religion. More so in fact. Martin here is prolix in his writing but quite quotable in this snippet.

 

[TheWestPole]

FDA head to step down, chief scientist taking over
http://news.yahoo.com/head-fda-stepping-down-chief-scientist-over-143556691--politics.html
I hope they get rid of ex Monsanto executive and lobbyist Michael Taylor, .. Deputy Commissioner for Foods and Veterinary Medicine next
http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/CentersOffices/OfficeofFoods/ucm196721.htm
Monsanto/FDA and Revolving Doors

More info on GMO'S and Revolving Doors

Best news out of the FDA in quite some time.

 

[No Ash More Cash]

Hello sistah!

View attachment 13893

Best news out of the FDA in quite some time.

Really! But like i said... I hope Taylor is next...Talk about conflict of interest

 

[No Ash More Cash]

Philosophy of the past century has concerned itself as much with the unquestioned authority of science as with that of religion. More so in fact. Martin here is prolix in his writing but quite quotable in this snippet.

Unlike Religion faith Scientific faith is based on Facts or to be proven theories...While in the scientific communities they try to make the world a better place (And yes they do fuck up) but in the religious communities Many are just waiting for the rapture so they can go to heaven and be saved...I don't think you'll find many Atheists wanting the end of the world...I know I for one don't!!

 

[TheWestPole]

My feelings on that are: If you are gay, just shut up and be gay. I have yet to see a heterosexual pride day...or parade, or picnic. Same thing is you are black or a jew....just be one. As soon as we declare ourselves "special"...we separate ourselves from the mainstream, and subsequently define ourselves as different...and will be treated as such. It is said that "All men are created equal"....this is not a philosophy that is exclusive to faith or secular belief...it is just SO. I meet a person, and through discourse and time, I determine that this is a pleasant person to be around and exchange ideas. I see this as a person...and no different than myself...not unlike how most children view each other. All things are pleasantly equal, and assuming that in the course of that relationship there is a just and equitable give and take...there is peace. When a person declares that they are gay , or an atheist, or whathaveyou....then it is not uncommon for the other to stop considering them a "person"...but now a "different person". Subsequently the treatment becomes different, and what began as unity, has now ventured into a tribal division. This is the fundamental basis of faith....to judge NOT the person...but the actions of that person. When a man tells me that he is gay....that does not affect me, as those things which define his gayness, are not a factor in our amicable and platonic relationship. What one believes or does, is THEIR matter, and unless it becomes an extrinsic factor in a relationship, it is irrelevant.

What good are the virtues of your unity if your unity can't overcome declared differences of this sort: I'm "gay, black, jew, atheist"? Or your own declarations, I might add, often repeated: I'm Catholic, etc. Minorities, particularly hated minorities, will speak louder to be heard. Not all speech is interpersonal and conversational, and minority speech does trend to a greater component of the political. I should think you would accept it and get past it. Isn't that what catholic (small c) implies? I see the redeeming intentions in this post, but the rest I find pretty troubling.

 

[No Ash More Cash]

Separation of church and state refers to state run religion, where this is not allowance for religious freedom, including the ability to not subscribe to ANY religion.

"Separation of church and state" can be the other way also...I mean who is more objective of gay marriage...who are more of a bigot when it comes to gays..who wants to tell women they can't have abortions....Oh and let's not forget The KKK the good old white Christan club...That wasn't so long ago and still exists ... The list goes on.
07:30 in sums it up

 

[bobsyeruncle]

Unlike Religion faith Scientific faith is based on Facts or to be proven theories...While in the scientific communities they try to make the world a better place (And yes they do fuck up) but in the religious communities Many are just waiting for the rapture so they can go to heaven and be saved...I don't think you'll find many Atheists wanting the end of the world...I know I for one don't!!

Just to add:

If you actually understand science, you're always questioning. Well, for some of us, the questioning starts with just getting up to speed on the understanding and implications of the existing science; you can't be debating science from ignorance. But it's the very nature of science, as a discipline, a methodology, to improve itself by challenging the existing theories and improve the science with better ones as well as adding more nuance to the existing body of knowledge.

1. Science doesn't work as a faith-based discipline. It can't be dogmatic or static.
2. Science is based on evidence and reasoning. Belief in science isn't the same thing as faith in religion. The use of the word faith to describe belief in science vs. a belief in religion would be an equivocation.

 

[bobsyeruncle]

"Separation of church and state" can be the other way also...I mean who is more objective of gay marriage...who are more of a bigot when it comes to gays..who wants to tell women they can't have abortions....Oh and let's not forget The KKK the good old white Christan club...That wasn't so long ago and still exists ... The list goes on.

Yeah, forget the KKK and the Westboro Baptist Church, there's still the problem of conservative Christians opposing civil liberties with support from their bible, tenets of which are shared with the other Abrahamic religions. It isn't just a few nuts that are the problem.

 

[No Ash More Cash]

Yeah, forget the KKK and the Westboro Baptist Church, there's still the problem of conservative Christians opposing civil liberties with support from their bible, tenets of which are shared with the other Abrahamic religions. It isn't just a few nuts that are the problem.

Oh I know..I was just pointing out some of the wackos...I did bring up civil liberties before as in people are born the way they are... but you are not born religious...That is pushed on you and for the most part as a child

 

[bobsyeruncle]

And that pushing is not by god or there wouldn't be so many other religions out there, some with more than one deity.

 

[TheWestPole]

“Science manipulates things and gives up living in them. It makes its own limited models of things; operating upon these indices or variables to effect whatever transformations are permitted by their definition, it comes face to face with the real world only at rare intervals. Science is and always will be that admirably active, ingenious, and bold way of thinking whose fundamental bias is to treat everything as though it were an object-in-general - as though it meant nothing to us and yet was predestined for our own use.”

Maurice Merleau-Ponty, "Eye and Mind"

 

[TheWestPole]

Unlike Religion faith Scientific faith is based on Facts or to be proven theories...While in the scientific communities they try to make the world a better place (And yes they do fuck up) but in the religious communities Many are just waiting for the rapture so they can go to heaven and be saved...I don't think you'll find many Atheists wanting the end of the world...I know I for one don't!!

True. I will return to what the cited philosophy is getting at regarding science and religion when I have a little more time. For now I'll just say this. Atheism is on one hand much much more than the opposition of science and rationality to religion and faith. On the other hand it is much less, that is, merely the non-belief in God or other transcendent originary beings. This is the negative or what @franciscan called "reactive" aspect of atheism. However, where that lesser non-belief necessarily leads us, what it inevitably implies, is always on the side of the greater. That's where philosophy comes into the picture. More later.

 

[bobsyeruncle]

On science:

I am among those who think that science has great beauty. A scientist in his laboratory is not only a technician: he is also a child placed before natural phenomena which impress him like a fairy tale. We should not allow it to be believed that all scientific progress can be reduced to mechanisms, machines, gearings, even though such machinery has its own beauty. — Marie Curie

“We inhabit a universe where atoms are made in the centers of stars; where each second a thousand suns are born; where life is sparked by sunlight and lightning in the airs and waters of youthful planets; where the raw material for biological evolution is sometimes made by the explosion of a star halfway across the Milky Way; where a thing as beautiful as a galaxy is formed a hundred billion times - a Cosmos of quasars and quarks, snowflakes and fireflies, where there may be black holes and other universe and extraterrestrial civilizations whose radio messages are at this moment reaching the Earth. How pallid by comparison are the pretensions of superstition and pseudoscience; how important it is for us to pursue and understand science, that characteristically human endeavor. ” ― Carl Sagan, Cosmos

“We are a way for the cosmos to know itself.” ― Carl Sagan, Cosmos

 

[No Ash More Cash]

True. I will return to what the cited philosophy is getting at regarding science and religion when I have a little more time. For now I'll just say this. Atheism is on one hand much much more than the opposition of science and rationality to religion and faith. On the other hand it is much less, that is, merely the non-belief in God or other transcendent originary beings. This is the negative or what @franciscan called "reactive" aspect of atheism. However, where that lesser non-belief necessarily leads us, what it inevitably implies, is always on the side of the greater. That's where philosophy comes into the picture. More later.

I have to ask... I have noticed you bring up philosophy quite a few times so I'm guessing you have taken it in a class or just Interested in it but do you listen to Stefan Molyneux at all or know of him?..I have sub to his YT channel and when I time or in the mood listen to him

 

[MKPM]

"Separation of church and state" can be the other way also...I mean who is more objective of gay marriage...who are more of a bigot when it comes to gays..who wants to tell women they can't have abortions....Oh and let's not forget The KKK the good old white Christan club...That wasn't so long ago and still exists ... The list goes on.
07:30 in sums it up

Here you go generalising. The RCC opposes the first points. On the KKK, that is a Protestant thing. Painting all of Christdom did not work for you on that post. Yet you still fail to see how far you have to reach in order to make a tepid point.

 

[MKPM]

What good are the virtues of your unity if your unity can't overcome declared differences of this sort: I'm "gay, black, jew, atheist"? Or your own declarations, I might add, often repeated: I'm Catholic, etc. Minorities, particularly hated minorities, will speak louder to be heard. Not all speech is interpersonal and conversational, and minority speech does trend to a greater component of the political. I should think you would accept it and get past it. Isn't that what catholic (small c) implies? I see the redeeming intentions in this post, but the rest I find pretty troubling.

I restate that I am Catholic only in that when referring to Christians....we are different in that we have not taken it upon ourselves to throw out the Gospel as a continuing way of life. Protestants do not worship God as much as the presiding pastor.....this is why they have no centralisation....it removes the responsibility to be responsible to.......well......pretty much anything.

 

[No Ash More Cash]

Here you go generalizing. The RCC opposes the first points. On the KKK, that is a Protestant thing. Painting all of Christdom did not work for you on that post. Yet you still fail to see how far you have to reach in order to make a tepid point.

Not generalizing at all... you are interpreting it that way..I'm just pointing some of the aspects of it.. of course not all Christians are like that...anyone who would think that is a idiot

 

[MKPM]

Not generalizing at all... you are interpreting it that way..I'm just pointing some of the aspects of it.. of course not all Christians are like that...anyone who would think that is a idiot

No shortage of the ignorant in todays world sadly. I do notice that when I say that you are generalising....your only response is that I am only interpreting it that way...which is a non-argument. What I need, is to know in detail...in a way that would withstand refutation...HOW I am misinterpreting you.

 

[No Ash More Cash]

Hey @franciscan..Serious Question...Talking about Protestants reminded me... What are your thoughts on the Catholic church not allowing women priests?...I find that somewhat on the same lines as the Muslim faith as in degrading women and not thinking they are equal to men

 

[No Ash More Cash]

No shortage of the ignorant in todays world sadly. I do notice that when I say that you are generalizing....your only response is that I am only interpreting it that way...which is a non-argument. What I need, is to know in detail...in a way that would withstand refutation...HOW I am misinterpreting you.

Well it's true.. You did interpret it the wrong way...I know what I meant with that post and again it was one aspect of it and there was NO "generalizing" ... you really think I think all Christians are like that???....That's like saying all Muslims are terrorists Come on now

 

[MKPM]

Well it's true.. You did interpret it the wrong way...I know what I meant with that post and again it was one aspect of it and there was NO "generalizing" ... you really think I think all Christians are like that???....That's like saying all Muslims are terrorists Come on now

I really only know of you based on what you post.

 

[MKPM]

Hey @franciscan..Serious Question...Talking about Protestants reminded me... What are your thoughts on the Catholic church not allowing women priests?...I find that somewhat on the same lines as the Muslim faith as in degrading women and not thinking they are equal to men

Three things out of many that I would like to see in a Third Vatican Council would be: Allowing women to join the Holy Orders......Marriage of those in Holy Orders (I always thought it daft that they can administer that Holy Sacrament, but can not partake of it)...and masturbation being downgraded to a venial sin.

 

[No Ash More Cash]

Would the same be said if I posted the Video of that poor fucker who got set on fire by ISIS?...of course not...That would be only one aspect of the Muslim faith and how whacked out some of them are plus I know not all Muslims are like that..The only thing in common is...It's all in the name of God

 

[MKPM]

Would the same be said if I posted the Video of that poor fucker who got set on fire by ISIS?...of course not...That would be only one aspect of the Muslim faith and how whacked out some of them are plus I know not all Muslims are like that..The only thing in common is...It's all in the name of God

A true Christian does NOTHING in the name of God. That is heresy unless you are a Catholic Ordained Priest.

 

[WKR]

This is to CELTIC FROG!!!! MOVE TO SYRIA!!!!!! PLEASE DO IT QUICKLY SO THEY CAN BURN YOU IN A CAGE AND WARM ALL OUR HEARTS AND SOULS!!!

 

[No Ash More Cash]

Three things out of many that I would like to see in a Third Vatican Council would be: Allowing women to join the Holy Orders......Marriage of those in Holy Orders (I always thought it daft that they can administer that Holy Sacrament, but can not partake of it)...and masturbation being downgraded to a venial sin.

I know it's a easy jab but I think it has to do with a lot of it.. but do you think that lays the problem where priests do shit to kids?...They join the priesthood hoping a life style like that will keep them at bay of their sick thoughts but they do crumble in the end...I mean 17.000 what we know of since the 60's(And that's not including members of the flock doing sick shit to kids)..And the worst part is the church tries to cover it up by moving that priest to a different location or pays the victims off (shush money)..I know this happens everywhere but these are men of the cloth..As I said it's a easy jab but one that is very serious

 

[MKPM]

Remember my earlier post about there being no shortage of ignorance?

 

[No Ash More Cash]

This is to CELTIC FROG!!!! MOVE TO SYRIA!!!!!! PLEASE DO IT QUICKLY SO THEY CAN BURN YOU IN A CAGE AND WARM ALL OUR HEARTS AND SOULS!!!

I hope this is a joke...If not...FUCK OFF!!!

 

[No Ash More Cash]

Remember my earlier post about there being no shortage of ignorance?

Shit's going to happen