Why the PMTA is Benefical in The Long Run

[VaporEmpireDotCom]

Back in 2016, the Food and Drug Administration made an announcement stating all tobacco products not present in the market prior to the 8th of August in 2016, would need to have approval through a PMTA prior to entering the tobacco market. Additionally, all products introduced before that date would be given a grace period where they would have the ability to prep a PMTA for submission. The PMTA deadline is getting very close for products in the grace period who still want to legally sell their products on the market, September 9th 2020 to be exact. Moreover, the FDA made a commitment to review each and every PMTA application within a single year, during this time enforcement will be deferred on no-sale orders for products that are considered 'under review'.

Read more here:
PMTA Nearing Deadline

 

[JuicyLucy]

NO PMTA sucks balls as the FDA is being unreasonable - the last I saw, they were rejecting applications left and right and after all these years, still not one approved vape product

How the hell is that beneficial to vapers, and especially, smokers who in the future may have switched

 

[VaporEmpireDotCom]

The FDA stated they would be approving PMTA applications and the process will take up to an entire year for them to review all applications. There's a good chance we will see companies like: 7Daze, Juice Head, BLVK Unicorn, Air Factory and others legally on the market.

A positive in all of this is vaping won't be outright banned in the future because federally, compliant companies can sue the states that enact state-level vaping bans

 

[VaporEmpireDotCom]

NO PMTA sucks balls as the FDA is being unreasonable - the last I saw, they were rejecting applications left and right and after all these years, still not one approved vape product

How the hell is that beneficial to vapers, and especially, smokers who in the future may have switched

The FDA stated they would be approving PMTA applications and the process will take up to an entire year for them to review all applications. There's a good chance we will see companies like: 7Daze, Juice Head, BLVK Unicorn, Air Factory and others legally on the market.

A positive in all of this is vaping won't be outright banned in the future because federally, compliant companies can sue the states that enact state-level vaping bans

 

[JuicyLucy]

Also, the article in the link states: On a positive note, through time the FDA will approve more PMTA submissions for e-cigarette products because they will be considered to be demonstrating that their product being available on the market will be ultimately beneficial to public health.

So, far - and I have been following this shit closely since before the deeming regs were published in 2016, there is zero evidence this statement is true. It is an opinion and I have yet to see one shred of evidence this will happen

The FDA was playing nice with even small manufacturers, then rejected their applications

Sorry, does not look rosy to me and their actions so far indicate nothing will be approved vape wise

Also, with it's other hand, the Feds are attempting or enacting other onerous regulations to vaping, like the pending ban on mailing vape products to individuals and pending outrageous tax on Nic base

 

[Huckleberried]

7Daze, Juice Head, BLVK Unicorn, Air Factory and others legally on the market.

And these are only juice companies. No good to anyone that doesn't have the appropriate LEGAL equipment to use them in. That's what this will do. So far, all I've seen that is approved by the FDA is the IQOS, which is the "heat not burn" device for tobacco.

PMTA hasn't impressed me. PMTA will kill more people than it will help.

 

[Creature0069]

Good luck with that thought process. If it was made to be easy, large co's like Nicopure (Halo) would have apps in for a lot more than 3 total flavors.
Also, from what I've seen, only a small handful of hardware manufacturers have submitted an app.
Also, also, there's no guarantee ANY of them will be approved.

 

[CaFF]

The Chinese companies that make nearly ALL of the vape gear, don't give two shits if the USA goes to hell or not. They have the rest of the planet as a market and were selling to other countries long before the USA even knew what a vape was. TBH, I first learned about vaping from a S. Korean guy in my gaming scene back in 2007.

I'd bet the KR808 would be grandfathered in eh? Egads...

 

[gsmit1]

The FDA stated...

See now there's your problem right there.

believing ANYthing the FDA says even if fully cited in primary documentation.

I put more faith in the graffiti I find on a wall somewhere.

 

[JuicyLucy]

The FDA website shows cumulative PMTAs rejected

In October, it was just under 400, by August, it was over 400

 

[gsmit1]

PMTA is nothing more than a scheme to give the illusion of concern for public health and fair play. The FDA has ZEEROH interest in seeing anybody except their chosen few survive their tyrannical axe.

The only companies left standing will be the ones who serve the agendas of the state overlords.

 

[The Cromwell]

The FDA stated they would be approving PMTA applications and the process will take up to an entire year for them to review all applications. There's a good chance we will see companies like: 7Daze, Juice Head, BLVK Unicorn, Air Factory and others legally on the market.

A positive in all of this is vaping won't be outright banned in the future because federally, compliant companies can sue the states that enact state-level vaping bans

If no accepted PMTA application by September 9 then no sale of product until after approval.

That linked article makes no sense.


And the last I heard there are maybe 15 vape products with accepted applications.
And all are sealed pod/cigalike systems. Any product with an accepted PMTA application can be siold for up till 1 year from date of application or is rejected. Of course if approved can continue to be sold. As long as the manufacturer keeps regular reports going in to the FDA.
Manufacturer must also be a registered tobacco products manufacturer.

I did quite a bit of reading thru the PMTA requirements docs a while back and per their requirements NO bottles of juice or open vape systems will likely be approved because of variable results and possible 'abuse'.
Same for variable wattage 510 type mods.

Look only for juice in sealed pods and such to be approved.
This specifically includes zero nic juice. It also must be in sealed containers/pods/cartomizers and must get a sign off by the FDA although not full PMTA process.
also only tobacco, menthol and unflavored juice is likely to be approved.

Also there is a UL standard for vape mods, etc now to be certified for.

Yes if anything does get approved it can maybe be sold in banned states. Maybe, as a general rule states can be more restrictive than federal laws unless a constitutional thing but never less restrictive.
The state and local vape bans are perfect examples of that.

Look for well over 95% of vape retail in the US to be gone shortly.
We have already dropped a bunch this year. Both Due to Covid's impact and retailers selling down stock.

I also expect Credit Cards to start refusing vape purchases as a general rule. It is already in all their rules to refuse illegal purchases...

 

[The Cromwell]

The Chinese companies that make nearly ALL of the vape gear, don't give two shits if the USA goes to hell or not. They have the rest of the planet as a market and were selling to other countries long before the USA even knew what a vape was. TBH, I first learned about vaping from a S. Korean guy in my gaming scene back in 2007.

I'd bet the KR808 would be grandfathered in eh? Egads...

Oh they care. They already lost India and other places and the US was a BIG market.
Not that they will do much about it such as filing PMTA applications and such though. Maybe a handful? I dunno.
heck China even cut off mail order vape within China.
Still can buy from shops though.

I am not sure if the 808 was sold in the US prior to Feb 2007 or not. Doubt it. Maybe people here ordered them from China though? But that does not count for the grandfather thing.
What I used to get off of cigs though.

 

[Carambrda]

A positive in all of this is vaping won't be outright banned in the future because federally, compliant companies can sue the states that enact state-level vaping bans

I call BS. Due to the high cost of both preparation and certified lab tests, the long waiting period that is fraught with uncertainty after filing an application, and the classical-old smokescreen (literally!) otherwise known as "FDA guidelines" on how to prepare, small and medium sized manufacturers will be driven out of business long before anything positive can come out of the PMTA type of fascism, and, I can promise that Big Tobacco and Big Pharma will soon be happy to buy these financially troubled manufacturer's trade secrets for a shin so, next, they will continue to monopolize whatever will still be left of the vaping industry, and turn that into yet another cash cow the size of which is even bigger than my clouds. All that it will take to achieve that goal will be to make a 180 degree turn in the propaganda that surrounds everything vape related... AFTER all the competition is gone. Sit back, take a deep breath, relax, and just follow the money.

 

[ProlineVaper]

The only thing the PMTA is going to accomplish is create a black market/web base market for vape devices and e-juice. Unfortunately this will open the door to low quality and possibly dangerous products to enter the market. We have seen one example of this with the illicit THC vape products that hit.the market with the deadly results over a year ago. PMTA is helping nobody butt big tobacco and the government that profits from the taxation and settlement payments. They could care.less about our health!

Sent from my LGL722DL using Tapatalk

 

[MC5]

The PMTA will keep more people smoking by limiting access to most varieties of vaping.

More smokers, more premature deaths and sickness, higher health care costs - not beneficial.

Duh.

 

[nadalama]

The one thing I do know about all this....those of us here who have been paying attention, and who've been fortunate enough to have the means, WILL KEEP VAPING, and we'll keep doing it the way WE WANT, not the way some damn bureaucrat who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground decides.

The government can tell me to stay home to keep from getting Covid-19. That makes sense. But when I've been vaping for nine years, never gave vape ONE to a kid, never shared with anyone under age or even made any statements to encourage kids to vape IN ANY WAY, and my health has improved from vaping, they can take their laws and shove them right up their collective asses.

It's COMPANIES LIKE THAT FUCKIN JUUL who should be the ones paying the price for the "epidemic" of kids vaping. Of all the ridiculous bullshit that ever existed in this country, for high schools to allow those fuckers to come in and pander directly to a whole generation of high school kids is the HEIGHT OF IDIOCY, and then to blame adult vapers for that is just DISHONEST. You think we don't know what all this is about? For Christ's sake, just give this shit up. If it weren't so tragic it would be laughable.

 

[gsmit1]

I call BS. Due to the high cost of both preparation and certified lab tests, the long waiting period that is fraught with uncertainty after filing an application, and the classical-old smokescreen (literally!) otherwise known as "FDA guidelines" on how to prepare, small and medium sized manufacturers will be driven out of business long before anything positive can come out of the PMTA type of fascism, and, I can promise that Big Tobacco and Big Pharma will soon be happy to buy these financially troubled manufacturer's trade secrets for a shin so, next, they will continue to monopolize whatever will still be left of the vaping industry, and turn that into yet another cash cow the size of which is even bigger than my clouds. All that it will take to achieve that goal will be to make a 180 degree turn in the propaganda that surrounds everything vape related... AFTER all the competition is gone. Sit back, take a deep breath, relax, and just follow the money.

Exactly this^^^^

I've been saying this for a while now. They are going to use the utter farce of caring for children and public heath to kill off all the meaningful competition and then come back once that is accomplished and go:

"OOPS!!! You were right. Vaping IS far safer than smoking and it IS a great smoking cessation tool. Sorry about that."

Watch. Write it down, take a screenshot. THAT is what they are going to do. Once you abandon this naive delusion that these state agencies care one bit about children or public health, they are as predictable as the day is long.

Of course the real issue is them having any say in what adults do to begin with. I never was a smoker. I vape because I like it. I have that right as a fully grown up adult man whether some nanny state bureaucrat thinks so or not.

As I've also said a hundred times, this stage was set decades ago. Vaping as we know it was banned long before ever there was such a thing as vaping.

Whatever anybody thinks of Ronald Reagan, he was dead on when he said that:

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help. "

LEAVE ME ALONE!!!

 

[Carambrda]

Exactly this^^^^

I've been saying this for a while now. They are going to use the utter farce of caring for children and public heath to kill off all the meaningful competition and then come back once that is accomplished and go:

"OOPS!!! You were right. Vaping IS far safer than smoking and it IS a great smoking cessation tool. Sorry about that."

Watch. Write it down, take a screenshot. THAT is what they are going to do. Once you abandon this naive delusion that these state agencies care one bit about children or public health, they are as predictable as the day is long.

Of course the real issue is them having any say in what adults do to begin with. I never was a smoker. I vape because I like it. I have that right as a fully grown up adult man whether some nanny state bureaucrat thinks so or not.

As I've also said a hundred times, this stage was set decades ago. Vaping as we know it was banned before ever there was such a thing as vaping.

Whatever anybody thinks of Ronald Reagan, he was dead on when he said that:

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help. "

LEAVE ME ALONE!!!

The past is not the future - what lies ahead for tobacco and nicotine? - The Counterfactual

Let’s have some debate on the future of tobacco, nicotine, tobacco control and the tobacco and vaping industry. Here are […]

www.clivebates.com

 

[Carambrda]

It's COMPANIES LIKE THAT FUCKIN JUUL who should be the ones paying the price for the "epidemic" of kids vaping. Of all the ridiculous bullshit that ever existed in this country, for high schools to allow those fuckers to come in and pander directly to a whole generation of high school kids is the HEIGHT OF IDIOCY, and then to blame adult vapers for that is just DISHONEST. You think we don't know what all this is about? For Christ's sake, just give this shit up. If it weren't so tragic it would be laughable.

“Vaping is a gateway” claims (again, sigh) and a mousetrapping metaphor for deconfounding

by Carl V Phillips I was asked by Clive Bates to expand upon his analysis of this paper (open access link): “Evidence that an intervention weakens the relationship between adolescent electron…

antithrlies.com

 

[Carambrda]

Due to Covid's impact

And then there's also the impact of junk science to go with that.

Sunday Science Lesson: Smoking protects against COVID-19, but most of the related “science” is badly misguided

by Carl V Phillips I am skipping the Introduction section here. Which is to say, I assume that the reader is at least somewhat familiar with the the overwhelming evidence that people who smoke are …

antithrlies.com

 

[eSMOKA]

all tobacco products not present in the market prior to the 8th of August in 2016, would need to have approval through a PMTA

This is inaccurate or I am not understanding it correctly.

The only products that do not require a PMTA are products that were on the US market before Feb 15, 2007.

As far as I know, that grandfather date has not changed. If I'm correct, then that means every hardware and juice vaping product will need a PMTA. People have tried but could not come up with a single hardware product that could be sold without a PMTA. And even if there is a product, it would be so lousy it would not be worth buying any of the.

Not even any of the cigalikes, be it 510, 808, 801, 901, 103, etc were on the market before that date.

The only models that would be exempt from PMTA would be Ruyan models, but they all sucked and in order to be exempt the product would pretty much have to be exactly the same. So even a slight modification to make it a better vape would means it would need a PMTA.

But regardless if I am right or wrong on any of this, honestly @VaporEmpireDotCom, I don't know what your smoking but if you think PMTA is a good thing in any way, I have a couple bridges to sell you.

A positive in all of this is vaping won't be outright banned in the future because federally, compliant companies can sue the states that enact state-level vaping bans

If a state wants to ban ecig sales, they can. It does not matter if ecigs are federally legal and no vape company would have a legal leg to stand on if they sued that state.

Personally I think this thread is a thinly disguised ad. But I may be wrong.

 

[The Cromwell]

The only products that do not require a PMTA are products that were on the US market before Feb 15, 2007.

This is correct.
Seems strange though that a vape vendor would not know this....

Technically no vape product that was introduced to US market after 8-8-2016 have never been legal to be sold without first having PMTA approval. Enforcement of this requirement was just delayed.

As of 8-8-2016.
Products on the US market prior to 8-8-2016 could still be sold IF an accepted PMTA application was filed prior to the then PMTA filing deadline date, which I think was 8-8-2017? Products not on US market prior to 8-8-2016 could not be sold until AFTER PMTA was approved not just filed. As with now products with a filed and accepted PMTA application can continue to be sold for up to 1 year from filing date or until rejected or approved. That date is apparently now Sept 9, 2020.

As I said the dates shifted and it seems that the pre 8-8-2016 and post 8-8-2016 products are now grouped together. However ALL VAPE or smoke products not on the US market prior to Feb 15, 2007 DO require PMTA approval.

Again how can a vape vendor not know this???

 

[The Cromwell]

Personally I think this thread is a thinly disguised ad. But I may be wrong.

Very thinly disguised imho.

 

[Huckleberried]

They need a better lawyer to explain the PMTA to them, or something. That's one possibility, but...

 

[eSMOKA]

Notice this joker never came back to this thread. I guess I don't blame him, I wouldn't either.