So, them Chinese have finally done it. YiHiEcigar is coming out with a true DNA40 clone - one that has temperature control: the SX350J chip:
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The temperature control chip clones are coming! - YiHi SX350J
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Midniteoyl
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Relocatable fire button too! 
driver379
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Well hell! Now I guess I'm gonna have to check these out.So, them Chinese have finally done it. YiHiEcigar is coming out with a true DNA40 clone - one that has temperature control: the SX350J chip:
Ellipsis
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im a little confused...
isnt the joule used to determine wattage, as in Watts (power) = Joules(energy) / time constant(seconds)...
and arent watts used to determine joules, as in Joules (energy) = Watts (power) x time constant (seconds)...
so variable joules and variable wattage make this board dual mode?
how does this achieve coil temperature limiting, as the dna40 exibits?
dont get me wrong, i would like to see this board pass muster as a viable choice...
and how by any stretch does this make it a clone of the evolv circuitry?
dont flame me ... im just asking for someone more knowledgeable than i to explain the theory to me so i can better understand it...
my first regulated mod was an svd, wasnt a yihi board used for that, and i loved the svd. i currently use an sx mini and am impressed with how accurate it is...
so an alternate approach to what evolv is trying to do is refreshing and interesting to say the least...
isnt the joule used to determine wattage, as in Watts (power) = Joules(energy) / time constant(seconds)...
and arent watts used to determine joules, as in Joules (energy) = Watts (power) x time constant (seconds)...
so variable joules and variable wattage make this board dual mode?
how does this achieve coil temperature limiting, as the dna40 exibits?
dont get me wrong, i would like to see this board pass muster as a viable choice...
and how by any stretch does this make it a clone of the evolv circuitry?
dont flame me ... im just asking for someone more knowledgeable than i to explain the theory to me so i can better understand it...
my first regulated mod was an svd, wasnt a yihi board used for that, and i loved the svd. i currently use an sx mini and am impressed with how accurate it is...
so an alternate approach to what evolv is trying to do is refreshing and interesting to say the least...
@Ellipsis: Yeah I'm with you there. The Joule unit makes no sense whatsoever in the context of this board. I'm assuming the designer have perverted it to mean temperature.
As for the DNA40, although it uses correct units, it's not terribly intuitive either if I'm honest: in temperature mode, it combines a "desired power" and a "max temperature" setting to achieve what should really be achieved with a single "desired temperature" setting. But once you wrap your head around the strange user interface, it's quite easy to operate.
I can only assume the SX350J will let you set the desired temperature, but instead of setting it in degrees, you'll set it in "YiHi-Joules"
EDIT: if you look in the spec sheet, it even says "Variable Joule Mode: Output Power: 5 Joules, 30 Joules or 50 Joules". That single sentence tells you the designer hasn't a clue what power or energy are. I think we're clearly dealing with YiHiJoules here.
As for the DNA40, although it uses correct units, it's not terribly intuitive either if I'm honest: in temperature mode, it combines a "desired power" and a "max temperature" setting to achieve what should really be achieved with a single "desired temperature" setting. But once you wrap your head around the strange user interface, it's quite easy to operate.
I can only assume the SX350J will let you set the desired temperature, but instead of setting it in degrees, you'll set it in "YiHi-Joules"
EDIT: if you look in the spec sheet, it even says "Variable Joule Mode: Output Power: 5 Joules, 30 Joules or 50 Joules". That single sentence tells you the designer hasn't a clue what power or energy are. I think we're clearly dealing with YiHiJoules here.
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Midniteoyl
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Or, simple Engrish striking again...
The language barrier excuse is only good up to a point... just as with law issues, ignorance is no excuse... the same holds true with scientific terms. If your language has no definition for a word... you first need to understand the exact definition of the word or term before you start using it and then you add it to your language.
They either have cloned the temperature control or not... if they have there was no reason at all to excuse them for using a different term or word. If they didn't clone the temp control... they need to say that and explain what they really mean or better yet, get help from someone who does understand the word or term they are choosing to use beforehand.
bluraff3
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My physics are a little rusty, but I believe Joules can be translated into heat. A joule is a measure of energy which is power applied for a length of time, then given the medium said energy is applied to, you can know the temperature. How this translates into a DNA40 clone, I have no idea, but I don't think the fact that they are using joules necessarily means they don't know what they're doing.
Lefty
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Joule is an accepted and reasonably common measure of heat.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/heat-units-d_664.html
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/heat-units-d_664.html
Midniteoyl
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I know... and I agree
One joule in everyday life represents approximately:
- the energy required to lift a small apple (with a mass of approximately 100 g) vertically through one metre of air.
- the energy released when that same apple falls one metre to the ground.
- the energy required to accelerate a 1 kg mass at 1 m·s−2 through a 1 m distance in space.
- the heat required to raise the temperature of 1 g of water by 0.24 K.[6]
- the typical energy released as heat by a person at rest every 1/60 second (approximately 17 ms).[7]
- the kinetic energy of a 50 kg human moving very slowly (0.2 m/s or 0.72 km/h).
- the kinetic energy of a 56 g tennis ball moving at 6 m/s (22 km/h).[8]
- the kinetic energy of an object with mass 1 kg moving at √2 ≈ 1.4 m/s.
However, joule can be used as a measurement of heat, so scientifically, they are correct... Though, if they are selling to the US, they prolly should have used terms that better understood here by the layman.
Midniteoyl
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LOL.. the 2 posts above beat me too it
Nikkita6
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I agree, I still do not like the use of the joules value which does not lend itself to common understanding. That is why I criticized its use on the first SX350 mini chip. While I have spoken to TWO people who seem to have found a use for it, and are able practically apply it to their own vape experience, on a whole I find the joules value to be useless.
So to now attempt to apply the use of joules to temperature control or protection is gimmicky to me. They should have used values, and language that is commonly understood by the consumers of the market they are selling this device to. All that being said, I am still intrigued by this new temperature sensing/limiting chip, and I do plan to get it once it is available.
It does not lend itself to common understanding because there is nothing to understand: the Joule is a unit of energy, not a unit of power. Their use of the Joule as a unit of power is plain and simply incorrect.
It would only make sense if the duration of a toke was fixed. Assuming it always took, say, 5 seconds, you could conceivable say you've transferred 50J of energy into the atomizer (in the form of heat) by powering the coil at 10W on average during those 5s. But you could also deliver those 50J by powering the coil at 20W for 2.5s, or 50W during 1s - or 0.14W for an hour.
Obviously there's a difference between the temperatures the coil will reach when powered at 10W for 5s and at 0.14W for an hour. That's why using Joules for temperature control makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
The only explanation I can think of for using this unit is that it was a requirement from the marketing department (as in "Here's something nobody's used before that we can trademark").
This is not a clone its a authentic yihi board. A clone would be a board trying to replicate Evolvs looks and functions.
350ZMO
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Maybe not a 1:1 clone but it was expected that China based companies would take the temperature idea and run with it:
Having made mods using the SX350 it doesn't surprise me it was yihi, just that it has taken them so long.
A good read, DNA-40 is temperature protect not control:
http://vaping.com/news/exclusive-in...om-evolv?_ga=1.192401763.891490488.1411498411
Evolv was awarded a patent for Electronic vaporizer that simulates smoking with power control. Doesn't mean they invented power regulation but they did patent it. I don't know if they have applied for separate patent for power regulation with temperature protection as it may be included in the original patent award:
http://www.google.com/patents/US20130104916
I am aware of one claim to develop a temperature control e-cig prior to the -40, somewhere in EU if I remember correctly, but they never brought a product to market and I do not know if it was patented or if they are continuing to pursue it at this point. So kudos to those that bring stuff to market.
LOL @ yihi joules. Yep...sounds about right. Not sure how regulating joules if real would work. It's gotta be power regulated.
Anyhow, there is a big difference between temperature regulation and temperature limiting. And heat or joule control by itself doesn't mean temperature protection. But reading yihis site it appears it does have temperature protection.
Having made mods using the SX350 it doesn't surprise me it was yihi, just that it has taken them so long.
A good read, DNA-40 is temperature protect not control:
http://vaping.com/news/exclusive-in...om-evolv?_ga=1.192401763.891490488.1411498411
Evolv was awarded a patent for Electronic vaporizer that simulates smoking with power control. Doesn't mean they invented power regulation but they did patent it. I don't know if they have applied for separate patent for power regulation with temperature protection as it may be included in the original patent award:
http://www.google.com/patents/US20130104916
I am aware of one claim to develop a temperature control e-cig prior to the -40, somewhere in EU if I remember correctly, but they never brought a product to market and I do not know if it was patented or if they are continuing to pursue it at this point. So kudos to those that bring stuff to market.
LOL @ yihi joules. Yep...sounds about right.
Not sure how regulating joules if real would work. It's gotta be power regulated.Anyhow, there is a big difference between temperature regulation and temperature limiting. And heat or joule control by itself doesn't mean temperature protection. But reading yihis site it appears it does have temperature protection.
Taking an idea and improving on it is not exactly the same thing as copying a design.
Most of whats coming out is an improvement of older gear.
Besides i don't think Evolve patented temp control.
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vaporholic-gringo
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It's been years but I remember joules being part of a thermal dynamics class. A way to calculate heat.
Monotremata
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Hmm wonder if this fits in the IPV Mini???
vaporholic-gringo
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I don't see why not. That board is tiny
Looks to me like the patent is the temp protection control (but im no electronics expert)
"A power detect component collects a parameter of the heating element to determine actual power output thereof. The control component dynamically adjusts the power source based on the actual power output."
Midniteoyl
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I'm lost in some of you guys replies.. If you know the material being used for the coil, say Nickel , and you know the resistance of that material, and, how that resistance changes due to temperature. Then it is a real simple process to determine how much power, in this case measured in Joules, to apply to maintain the desired temp setting... Since the less liquid you have vaporizing, the higher the heat in the coil, and thus the higher resistance, you come up with 'temp control' as it is used in the Evolv.
, and you know the resistance of that material, and, how that resistance changes due to temperature. Then it is a real simple process to determine how much power, in this case measured in Joules, to apply to maintain the desired temp setting... Since the less liquid you have vaporizing, the higher the heat in the coil, and thus the higher resistance, you come up with 'temp control' as it is used in the Evolv.
Midniteoyl
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You're right... Layman terms.
However, the power P in watts (W) is equal to the energy E in joules (J), divided by the time period t in seconds.. So thus the 'how much power, in this case measured in Joules'
Limwell supposedly has a few new Temp controlled mods coming out 1st of March. A 50watt vapor shark looking thing, and a 120w model. The mod that looks like a Variant is a 100w regular mod. The artist rendition unit on the bottom is supposedly the temp controlled 120w unit. Just got the email today.
nice looking
Patents do not really matter if you have major backing by the time its produced and purposely breaking the copyright X large company then sues Y company then they typically settle out of court and everyone goes on their merry way a great analogy is the man who invented the intermittent windshield wiper took forever then he finally won and every wiper ever made he got his money... same reason Evolv is not going after every company using wattage controlled boards who knows what the agreement is we will never know
CloudPusher
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Yup. They are slaping it into a new version of the SXmini. Take mah moniez!!!
CloudPusher
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I learn to science through my excessive use of ecig gear. Soon i shall make a rocket ship! Muahahahahahahahahaaaaaaa
And btw. I don't think the 'general' market is that interested in chips and or devices to this level anyway imho.
Joule this buddy
haha
There was a company called Digital that created the GUI interface for computer operating systems, the Macintosh was the first successful implementation on a large scale. Digital also invented something called the "Paperless Office", which is used by almost everyone in the Office Applications suites from Microsoft to Openoffice. Digital missed the boat when they refused to see some execs from IBM late on a Friday afternoon before a long 4th of July weekend. A guy named Bill Gates from a tiny development company met with the IBM exec's later that day and inked a deal to make a disk operating system and BASIC interpreter for IBM's upcoming line of PC's. Digital vanished into the history of technology, never getting paid for their innovations. One stupid decision killed their future.
Large companies infringe on each others patents all the time, Microsoft is the leader of the pack in that respect. They sue each other and keep armies of lawyers employed. Evolv may have patented temperature control, but how it's implemented with the specific circuitry determines if it's a patent infringement or not. Evolv, much like Digital has created cutting edge technology, but has failed to keep up with the changing needs of the vaping community. I bought a DNA12 device years back, it was the first quality APV I owned. Nowadays, you can buy an iStick 20watt for $25. I paid almost $200 for the DNA12 APV. Much like IBM, Evolv has tried and failed to dictate what the market should be. IBM clones like the Compaq line of PC's killed off IBM's dominance in the market. Mods like the iStick and others killed off the high price "authentics" by offering acceptable power in a small package for a cheap price. 90% of vapers will never use more than 20watts. If the next generation of temperature control boards and mods from China are any good, Evolv may just slowly vanish like Digital did in the 90's.
May have been the reason Brandon from Evolv was in China last month.
The GUI and mouse idea came from Xerox PARC. Jobs traded 100,000 shares of pre-sale Apple IPO ($1,000,000) for the rights.
"If Xerox had known what it had and had taken advantage of its real opportunities, it could have been as big as I.B.M. plus Microsoft plus Xerox combined'and the largest high-technology company in the world ~Steve Jobs."
Apple & Microsoft have borrowed quite a few innovations from each other over the years.
Point is well taken though. If you lag, your going to be left behind... Just ask Nicoli Tesla !!
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Much more eleqouently said then I .. I figured no one would read... It was Xerox that invented the GUI only correction at the time the board said what we do Printers only... Jobs walked in and they gave him the GUI.
Heh, eveyone believes Xerox made the first GUI, it was Digital, Xerox bought the patent (my Aunt used to work at Digital)
Ahhh I learned something new Digital was a great company ousted by lesser ones sad they much like the Amiga, next, were way ahead in technology
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I used to work selling "Digital Research" products, which is the company that turned down IBM. It was also the company that developed CP/M, which is what IBM was originally interested in. The GUI, from what I understand was developed originally at Xerox PARC (Palo Alto Reseach Center). One of the PARC developers left and went to work with Digital Research to develop GSX which later became the GEM GUI.
Digital was the computer company that made DEC (digital equipment corp) mini and mainframe computers out of Massachusetts. Digital Research was a software company out of California
Also, GEM came out a year after the first Mac was introduced
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I used to work developing DR products (namely the DRDOS kernel)
That was in another life long ago...
Thanks that was a blur I remember when I was one of the unlucky ones to get a flawed pentium 90 chip I remember still being just a sophomore in college and driving to Digital to have the chip replaced I remember very well the class action lawsuit that I got haha. 2. 38 cents from wow seems like eons ago
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I found this thread to be sort of funny. From what I can tell Evolve has been fumbling the dna 40 chip, they are on at least v5 from continually correcting the issues that come up from releasing to early. In my opinion there was not enough r&d given to the product. My speculation would be that both Evolve and yihi were experimenting in the same direction and Evolve wanted to make sure they were the first to hit the scene, and in typical vape gear fashion they kicked it out to the masses and seemingly figured let's let them pay us a premium to beta test for us. So far this gamble has been met with lots of reported chip issues, even to the point that before the chips were in the hands of consumers they had a silicone fix to correct v1 lol.
I don't see why yihi could not pick up where evolve is struggling in this regard. Yihi makes good chips, the sx330 v3s in my ipv3 has yet to let me down and the sx350 yihi board is working great for me. If you look at where the best chips are made for cell phones it is over seas. So imo this is hardly a clone as it is simply a rival chip maker trying the same direction, and while I will probably not be an early adopter of the sx350j I will be watching all the other beta testers out there to see how well it does do, and after all these are not complex processors at this time.
The biggest concern I have with the temp or joules lol path is if/when a non experienced vapor gets hold of one and makes the mistake of using nickle in a non temp controlled device. Think about how many times you have seen unsafe practices because they are learning on the fly and then throw this variable in the mix.
I don't see why yihi could not pick up where evolve is struggling in this regard. Yihi makes good chips, the sx330 v3s in my ipv3 has yet to let me down and the sx350 yihi board is working great for me. If you look at where the best chips are made for cell phones it is over seas. So imo this is hardly a clone as it is simply a rival chip maker trying the same direction, and while I will probably not be an early adopter of the sx350j I will be watching all the other beta testers out there to see how well it does do, and after all these are not complex processors at this time.
The biggest concern I have with the temp or joules lol path is if/when a non experienced vapor gets hold of one and makes the mistake of using nickle in a non temp controlled device. Think about how many times you have seen unsafe practices because they are learning on the fly and then throw this variable in the mix.
There's nothing wrong with using nickel wire with ordinary mods. In fact, I'm using my E-Mech with a nickel coil build at this very moment
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350ZMO
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The 4 DNA40s I have, two from the initial release, one pre-assembled, three DIY, all work perfectly. They helped me find problems in my mods 510s and attys.
DNA40s were beta tested with vapers prior to release, that was the V1. I've chatted with a couple in another venue.
2 SX300 chips in pioneer4yous I had burned out. Contacted the seller he had 8 more burned up ones on hand. Yihi has problems too.
2 SX350s I have still work perfectly though I don't use them anymore.
I've been using and watching DNA40 threads since release. Most of the problem are with the mod parts other than the DNA40 board, flakey 510, poor wiring especially ground and attys with loose center post and 510 screws. Also evident that some DNA40 mod makers have little to normal issues and why others have above normal issues. Still happening with some mod makers to this day and probably will continue through V2000 as it has nothing to do with the board other than with Ni200 and temperature protect, .01 ohms can be a big deal.
DNA40 V2 boards had an issue with insufficient conformal coating. Get juice on it and it scrambles the screen. I had this happen to one of mine, and an SX350 that instead of scrambling the screen it fired on its own. Both easily corrected with ever clear. Both not the fault of the board but my mods 510s. Both corrected immediately so as not to cause permanent damage. Both still working great. If their is another failure mechanism for a scrambled screen, its not clear what it is.
The Celsius bug on the V4 is a bug that obviously was not found in testing. And it's not a show stopper and has an easy work around. I haven't heard of anyone doing this but my bet is if owners contact Evolv they'll make it right.
People have complained about the battery indicator but it is working as designed.
Rumor is Evolv has sold more DNA40s then all previous products combined.
I'm not an Evolv or Yihi fan, I just like what works.
In addition to the 350J there are two more temperature protect boards coming that I know of.
Kangxin KX-40D
Waidea 40W TP
I cant see a concern with using Ni200 on a non-TP mod unless that mod has no low ohm protection per its ratings (which it should have) in which case it'll just fry a chip on the board and stop working. You can do this with Kanthal. On a mech, I hope folks are using a protected battery as I would be more concerned about a shorted atty. With Ni200 the coil will heat up which will increase resistance and draw less current. Besides folks have experimented with Ti wire on mechs and Ti has a much lower TCR.
DNA40s were beta tested with vapers prior to release, that was the V1. I've chatted with a couple in another venue.
2 SX300 chips in pioneer4yous I had burned out. Contacted the seller he had 8 more burned up ones on hand. Yihi has problems too.
2 SX350s I have still work perfectly though I don't use them anymore.
I've been using and watching DNA40 threads since release. Most of the problem are with the mod parts other than the DNA40 board, flakey 510, poor wiring especially ground and attys with loose center post and 510 screws. Also evident that some DNA40 mod makers have little to normal issues and why others have above normal issues. Still happening with some mod makers to this day and probably will continue through V2000 as it has nothing to do with the board other than with Ni200 and temperature protect, .01 ohms can be a big deal.
DNA40 V2 boards had an issue with insufficient conformal coating. Get juice on it and it scrambles the screen. I had this happen to one of mine, and an SX350 that instead of scrambling the screen it fired on its own. Both easily corrected with ever clear. Both not the fault of the board but my mods 510s. Both corrected immediately so as not to cause permanent damage. Both still working great. If their is another failure mechanism for a scrambled screen, its not clear what it is.
The Celsius bug on the V4 is a bug that obviously was not found in testing. And it's not a show stopper and has an easy work around. I haven't heard of anyone doing this but my bet is if owners contact Evolv they'll make it right.
People have complained about the battery indicator but it is working as designed.
Rumor is Evolv has sold more DNA40s then all previous products combined.
I'm not an Evolv or Yihi fan, I just like what works.
In addition to the 350J there are two more temperature protect boards coming that I know of.
Kangxin KX-40D
Waidea 40W TP
I cant see a concern with using Ni200 on a non-TP mod unless that mod has no low ohm protection per its ratings (which it should have) in which case it'll just fry a chip on the board and stop working. You can do this with Kanthal. On a mech, I hope folks are using a protected battery as I would be more concerned about a shorted atty. With Ni200 the coil will heat up which will increase resistance and draw less current. Besides folks have experimented with Ti wire on mechs and Ti has a much lower TCR.
Is that right? I don't know anything about using nickle but was under the impression that it was not the safest wire to use in a non tc mod.There's nothing wrong with using nickel wire with ordinary mods. In fact, I use my E-Mech with a nickel coil build at this very moment
Nickle is extremely low resistance wire, the whole point of using it in a TC regulated mod is to regulate temperature, with nickle in a non tc mod, you run the risk of super heating the wire and giving off nickle ions, which ain't good for your health.