ECF (its owners) warns on Sub-Ohming and MODs, says likely causes Cancer, Toxins, Explosions, Fires

[VH fan]

Well here it is again. I started vapping to quit tobacco products because I knew that smoking was killing me. Not for one minute did I think that vapping would be 100% safe. That being said how long has the world at large been vaporizing e liquid?

Long enough I think that if byproducts produced from heating it up were going to cause us serious problems it would have been noticed by someone by now? I am absolutely certain that vapping is way safer than burning leaves to get nicotine. I'm also positive that nicotine has some beneficial effects on us. Sub ohming came about as a natural progression to get more flavor and vapor to satisfy what we were missing from giving up tobacco based units. Some do just because they like showing off, my cloud is bigger than your cloud.

Had we not gone in that direction I feel some of the awesome mods and rba's/rda's wouldn't exist today. I now have discovered that the current flood of regulated devices allow us to vape at traditional ohm levels with sub ohm results. So if it turns out that a coil lower than 2 ohms is creating something not so good the sub ohm crowd can still get their fill of vast clouds. Information is a good thing but an over the top Warning! Warning! Will Robinson! head line does nothing but cause an unneeded panic especially for new vappers. Hell what do I know, I'm just a former 2 pack a day smoker who can now walk up a flight of stairs without his face turning red and barely able to catch his breath.

Whose health has improved in multiple areas. I forget though that's not a peer reviewed officially sanctioned diagnoses so I guess it doesn't count.

I don't think we are anywhere close to knowing what the long term effects of sub ohm vaping is , probably won't be known for many many years from now actually.

Factually, the vast majority of vapers DO NOT sub ohm and do not need to sub ohm to get a very satisfying vape .

My most satisfying vape's by far come from builds from 1.2- 1.8 ohms and that seems to be the preferred range for a huge majority of vapors .

That includes dripper's as well , i am not a cloud person though , my thing is the best taste possible and lower ohm builds always mute the taste for me.

The overwhelming majority of friends that use high wattage devices vape at watts rarely higher than 20 and some admit 30 watts but out of all the people i know , two admit to being regular sub ohm guys while dozens more do not sub ohm.

Take the info as you wish but to draw a conclusion that won't be known for sure for a long time to come is just a guess at best.

 

[cherrycakes]

ECF is fucking ridiculous

 

[BabyFartsMcGeezax]

ECF is fucking ridiculous

Why?

 

[nashman]

Yeah, i would like to know why as well . Seems bringing up potential risks is not a bad thing to do , making it seem factual before more studies are in is .

It's a catch 22 , if they don't comment on it and the shit hits the fan they will be criticized for not saying anything about potential risks but if they do they are spreading unnecessary fear , you just can't win lol.

 

[BoomStick]

Read the second post again. That's how they talk to the entire membership? And it's mostly speculation? Arrogant fucking assholes. Don't explain yourself cherrycakes. Those of us that have spent any significant amount of time over there know exactly what you mean. The atmosphere there sucks and it obviously starts at the top.

 

[CaFF]

Those of us that have spent any significant amount of time over there know exactly what you mean. The atmosphere there sucks and it obviously starts at the top.

Well, at least they have that part correct. When sucking, start at the top....

 

[MKPM]

For the record....carcinogens are present in any food that is cooked over an open flame that is produced by wood or even propane. Clearly the FDA needs to issue warnings, and potentially ban outdoor grilling.

 

[MD_Boater]

I think the whole thing is a crock of shit. ECF is based overseas where the liability laws come with very strict penalties.

Take for example, this quote (Please sit down before you read this. If you fall over and hurt yourself, it is not my fault), "Drinking water does not ease dehydration, the European Union has ruled – and anyone who disagrees faces two years in prison.". Seriously? By definition, dehydration is a lack of water. It is not a lack of coffee, beer, milk, or gasoline. It is a lack of water. Every first grader knows this.

Consider for one minute how many years in prison the staff of ECF would get for saying that vaping is safer than smoking. Lots. Obviously, scientific evidence plays no part in it. If you can't say water cures dehydration, then you certainly can't say that ANYTHING is safe without exposing yourself to risk.

This article is a ploy so that in the future, ECF can say, "We never said that. As a matter of fact, we have already warned our users about the dangers of vaping".

 

[MKPM]

That ruling was made final by a Spaniard............'nuff said.

 

[MKPM]

Being in the UK, ECF may have to cover their asses legally. They have some mighty strange laws over there, and things r that do not cause problems here, can cause problems over there. If I am not mistaken, companies that sell bottled water are not allowed to say that it "cures" dehydration. We all know that it does, they just are not allowed to say so.

Do not blame the UK. We do not have any more restrictive laws or interpretations regarding vaping than the US. As for the drinking water twattery, that was the EU. That legislation was finalised by a Spaniard....so there you have it.

 

[MD_Boater]

I used the word "may" in that sentence specifically to indicate that I do not know if that was the reason. I was just tossing a theory out there.

And I also made no mention of laws regarding vaping. I was referring to liability.

That being said, it is a possible explanation for the junk science behind the article.

 

[Damwow]

Just another example of how our community can hurt itself!




http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-l...rt-answers/electronic-cigarettes/faq-20057776

go figure.. and no trace of this so called fda study.. [/QUOTE]
How sad, just anoth

 

[Nadiboy]

Alot of speculation going on here, by people I really doubt have any real qualifications, other than vaping "experience", apparently perceived to imbibe knowledge! It does not. That said, I also don't easily believe all these warnings, OR reassurances laid out in the multitude of studies out there, but a legitimate study, conducted by non-partisan/unbiased facilities give you at least something to consider, and keep in mind. Peoples opinions, like those found here, just give others far too much peace of mind, when really, they are nothing more than some person, who usually thinks they are much smarter than they are, being overly optimistic, even if they try to frame their conclusions as objectively drawn.
What I'm saying is that this thread, and plenty others like it, are SO FULL OF SHIT, that anyone reading tombakers(and most of the others commenting on or starting threads like this) ramblings and "car analogies"(how the fuck is a combustible fuel engine analogous with an atomizer?!?! Because they both apply heat to a liquid?!) better realize how ridiculous it is for him to draw these conclusions based on nothing more than his own weak logic and hopes.
The simple fact is, that until we have been using these devices for long enough to see what the ramifications are, we just don't know what it will do to us. Scientific studies(i.e. discovering vapor by-products with known effects on the lungs/body) are useful, if done under normal conditions, not, for instance, at 5 volts and for periods of time far longer than most of us would ever actually vape for(apparently some of these studies have been conducted at 5 volts and pushing the device for 30 minutes+ without any cooldown time allowed- and I say "apparently", because I usually quickly dismiss the articles I check out after realizing they are unrealistic and therefore their conclusions with be invalid in real life, and by dismiss, I mean I stop wasting my time reading them and put no effort into storing what information I DID take in!).
Anyways, I think I've made my point. Starting to feel like I'm rambling now, so I'll end now.
Here's to hoping that vaping is indeed safer than smoking!

 

[stevegmu]

They are just protecting themselves from liability. Look at all the new vapers who want to blow clouds with .1 ohm builds. They get advice on a forum as to what cheap mod, atty and build to use, then blow their face off. Who are they going to sue?

 

[always9988]

Here's the thing. Vaping has been around long enough that under normal circumstances some conclusions would be drawn about the safety. But everything has changed since the days of "rewicking" a carto with blue fish tank mesh. So if someone shows up with lung cancer as an example, there is no positive correlation there. Is it from the years they smoked before vaping? Is it from the cartos? Is it from using blu for a year before switching into something better? The silica wicks in the old clearos? The ceramic wicks everyone hated? The diacetyl/diketones? Sub ohming? Or was this person bound to get it anyway, and nothing they did or didn't do could have changed it?

There is never a right answer to these arguments, only speculation, and that's all it will likely ever be unless we get some serious advances in medical technology soon

 

[stevegmu]

How many people get cancer or COPD after smoking 7 years? The long term affects of heating and inhaling PG/VG and food flavors on a daily and sometimes constant basis are not known...

 

[always9988]

Which is basically what I said

 

[Hottvapz]

Fact being is everything could be harmful... Less harmful than smoking probably but not without its risk. Does it mean I'm going to through away my subtank or my RDA nope. But it is my risk to take.

Sent from my XT1031 using Tapatalk

 

[stevegmu]

Which is basically what I said

I don't think conclusions concerning safety can be drawn, given there are no long term studies concerning vapers who were never smokers...

Early vapers were smokers; now we have sport vaping. Maybe in 10 years we can see a pattern develop in these never smokers who were vapers...

 

[Hottvapz]

This is true. 15 years from now vaping may very well kill faster than stinky sticks.

Sent from my XT1031 using Tapatalk

 

[always9988]

I don't think conclusions concerning safety can be drawn, given there are no long term studies concerning vapers who were never smokers...

Early vapers were smokers; now we have sport vaping. Maybe in 10 years we can see a pattern develop in these never smokers who were vapers...

But you're basically saying what I said in different words. How is it you are making the exact same point and I'm still wrong?

Yes in 10 years we might have a better answer. But I literally said in 10 different ways there are no conclusions to be drawn right now in 2016

 

[stevegmu]

But you're basically saying what I said in different words. How is it you are making the exact same point and I'm still wrong?

Yes in 10 years we might have a better answer. But I literally said in 10 different ways there are no conclusions to be drawn right now in 2016

Here's the thing. Vaping has been around long enough that under normal circumstances some conclusions would be drawn about the safety.

I didn't say you are incorrect, but that I don't think any conclusions can be drawn at this point...
Every time a vaper has a health issue they believe is related to vaping, they are blown off and told it is a symptom of quitting smoking. Tough to get any data in this regard...

 

[always9988]

Omfg.

I'm off to make more coffee. Cheers

 

[5150sick]

They are just protecting themselves from liability. Look at all the new vapers who want to blow clouds with .1 ohm builds. They get advice on a forum as to what cheap mod, atty and build to use, then blow their face off. Who are they going to sue?

The shop that sold them the device, the distributor, and the wholesaler all get sued.

"On Wednesday, a Riverside County Superior Court jury awarded her nearly $1.9 million in a lawsuit she brought against the electronic cigarette's distributor, VapCigs; its wholesaler, Cartons 2 Go; and the Corona store where she bought it, Tobacco Expo."

http://www.latimes.com/local/crime/la-me-ecigarette-burns-verdict-20151001-story.html

Vaping opinion forums are just that, an opinion of a group of vapers.

If you scroll to the bottom of the forum to "Terms & Conditions you will see what you agreed to by becoming a member:

http://vapingunderground.com/help/terms

The providers ("we", "us", "our") of the service provided by this web site ("Service") are not responsible for any user-generated content and accounts ("Content"). Content submitted express the views of their author only.

Joe's lawyers wrote this up to cover Vaping Underground forum and Vaperjoe's Network of Sites from anything bad that may happen if you take any of the advice on this online opinion forum.


Here is just a few of many sharks that specialize in ecig explosions / Personal Injury Lawsuits:

http://www.josmablaw.com/#/e-cigarette-burn-lawyer/4579658300

http://kinglawfirm.com/e-cigarette-explosion-lawyer/

http://www.thelambertfirm.com/personal-injury/electronic-cigarette-e-cig-injury-lawsuits/

http://www.chainlaw.com/electronic-cigarette-explosion-lawyers/

http://eciginjuryattorney.com

http://www.pritzkerlaw.com/personal...explosion-lawsuit-can-i-sue-for-vaping-burns/

 

[stevegmu]

The shop that sold them the device, the distributor, and the wholesaler all get sued.

"On Wednesday, a Riverside County Superior Court jury awarded her nearly $1.9 million in a lawsuit she brought against the electronic cigarette's distributor, VapCigs; its wholesaler, Cartons 2 Go; and the Corona store where she bought it, Tobacco Expo."

http://www.latimes.com/local/crime/la-me-ecigarette-burns-verdict-20151001-story.html

Vaping opinion forums are just that, an opinion of a group of vapers.

If you scroll to the bottom of the forum to "Terms & Conditions you will see what you agreed to by becoming a member:

http://vapingunderground.com/help/terms

The providers ("we", "us", "our") of the service provided by this web site ("Service") are not responsible for any user-generated content and accounts ("Content"). Content submitted express the views of their author only.

Joe's lawyers wrote this up to cover Vaping Underground forum and Vaperjoe's Network of Sites from anything bad that may happen if you take any of the advice on this online opinion forum.


Here is just a few of many sharks that specialize in ecig explosions / Personal Injury Lawsuits:

http://www.josmablaw.com/#/e-cigarette-burn-lawyer/4579658300

http://kinglawfirm.com/e-cigarette-explosion-lawyer/

http://www.thelambertfirm.com/personal-injury/electronic-cigarette-e-cig-injury-lawsuits/

http://www.chainlaw.com/electronic-cigarette-explosion-lawyers/

http://eciginjuryattorney.com

http://www.pritzkerlaw.com/personal...explosion-lawsuit-can-i-sue-for-vaping-burns/

There just hasn't been a lawsuit against a vaping forum, yet. It is bound to happen, though...

 

[SMOKIE]

There are on going studies right now that have not been released yet, and I can not mention who or where at this time, I am under a confidentiality clause. But what I am hearing so far is with the use of sub ohms it causes a chemical change or break down due to high heat with producing Carbon monoxide, acrolein, formaldehyde and diacetal in your vape.

Also that the c02 is a straight fact ... C02 is lighter than air and if it's not dropping than their basically smoking not vaping.

Plus sub ohms using VG is like freebasing sugar with causing irreversible health damage. They said you would be better off freebasing a illegal substance.

Again this is from Sub ohms! Not your average 1.5 ohm using 25 watts which does NOT cause any of the above.

 

[stevegmu]

There are on going studies right now that have not been released yet, and I can not mention who or where at this time, I am under a confidentiality clause. But what I am hearing so far is with the use of sub ohms it causes a chemical change due to high heat with producing Carbon monoxide, acrolein, formaldehyde and diacetal in your vape.

Also that the c02 is a straight fact ... C02 is lighter than air and if it's not dropping than their basically smoking not vaping.

Plus sub ohms using VG is like freebasing sugar with causing irreversible health damage. They said you would be better off freebasing a illegal substance.

Again this is from Sub ohms! Not your average 1.5 ohm using 25 watts which does NOT cause any of the above.

Some of these concerns were brought up by Dr. F when sub ohm vaping came out...

 

[SMOKIE]

Some of these concerns were brought up by Dr. F when sub ohm vaping came out...

Yes, and these new studies are being done here in the US now.

 

[OneBadWolf]

Factually, the vast majority of vapers DO NOT sub ohm and do not need to sub ohm to get a very satisfying vape .

Source?

 

[SMOKIE]

Source?

Did you not read above what I said about the naming the source? Listen I am only stating what I was told so far about these studies by reputable people in this industry. You can take it with a grain of salt, disbelieve or whatever. But some day someone will tell you, I told you so.

 

[OneBadWolf]

Did you not read above what I said about the naming the source?

Did you not read above I was directing the question at somebody else? lol

 

[africamonk]

need to vape at 1.0 and i'll be safe.

 

[SMOKIE]

Did you not read above I was directing the question at somebody else? lol

Sorry thought you were taking to me! And they are correct the internet vaping community is only a very very small percentage, and we are the ones who sub ohm mostly. The biggest seller is still cartomizers.

 

[mikeyboy74]

At what point do we understand the relative risks of vaping a Kanger 0.5 at 28w vs a TFV4 at 80w vs comp cloud chasing? Is there a reason an 0.7 coil at 50w would be more hazardous than another tank with a 1.0 coil? About 14 months ago, the Atlantis started sub ohm for the masses, and many, including myself, were able to quit long running bad habits with the analogs. Other than to say nothing is healthier than inhaling fresh country air, what to make of this? Oh, I wish a Nautilus was sufficient......

 

[SMOKIE]

At what point do we understand the relative risks of vaping a Kanger 0.5 at 28w vs a TFV4 at 80w vs comp cloud chasing? Is there a reason an 0.7 coil at 50w would be more hazardous than another tank with a 1.0 coil? About 14 months ago, the Atlantis started sub ohm for the masses, and many, including myself, were able to quit long running bad habits with the analogs. Other than to say nothing is healthier than inhaling fresh country air, what to make of this? Oh, I wish a Nautilus was sufficient......

Many vapers have done it on a lot less like a egoT kit. There are so many great satisfying vapes out their from 1.0 to 2.0 ohms. You do not really need a Big cloud for a satisfying vape or a nicotine fix, that is all visual.

 

[OneBadWolf]

Its very simple. There are a group of vapers that do not like the way other people vape, and are so eager to prove the others are "doing it wrong" ( different than they vape, ) that they engage in fear mongering and the propagation of psudeo-science, not realizing that their own personal, and petty overwhelming need to be the "right" kind of vaper, undermines us all.

The very fact that there is NO clear data at this point, and the righteous are eagerly mounting their soapboxes, picking and choosing bits and pieces of hearsay that fits their idea of what and how everyone should have to vape, indicate that they have no idea of how ANY dissention in the community will harm all vapers.

They will be the ones screaming and gnashing their teeth, and pointing the finger at everyone else after our enemys divide and conquor us.

This isn't the fist kick at the cat for the "experts". They were chimeing in the last time when a study supposedly showed that ecigs release formaldehyde.

The authors of that study tried for months to conceal their methodology, from Dr. F. The melting plastic from to insane power levels they poured to plastic clearos, did produce formaldehyde. That is why they refused initially to release their methodology.

Now more dubiously funded bozos are probably doing the same thing with "sub ohm" devices.

This will be the thin edge of the wedge the FDA has been hoping for to sate their Tobacco masters, by giving creedence to the FDA being able to "approve" devices.

We all know, well, obviously not all, that if Reynolds or Camel or Dunhill does not make it, the FDA will not approve it.

Nothing new here. There are always going to be a few pointing the finger saying "take them away not me!!" " Them over there!! I'm on your side".

Sad.

 

[stevegmu]

Many vapers have done it on a lot less like a egoT kit. There are so many great satisfying vapes out their from 1.0 to 2.0 ohms. You do not really need a Big cloud for a satisfying vape or a nicotine fix, that is all visual.

Forums, YouTube and vendors have convinced many young vapers they need lots of power and .1 coils to get a good vape.
I think it is the amount of flavorings, as well, which may be an issue. 20-30 ml of e-liquid a day and high flavor concentrations sub-ohm vaped, vs. 5 ml/day at low flavor % e-liquid at 'high' ohms..

 

[OneBadWolf]

There are on going studies right now that have not been released yet, and I can not mention who or where at this time, I am under a confidentiality clause. But what I am hearing so far is with the use of sub ohms it causes a chemical change or break down due to high heat with producing Carbon monoxide, acrolein, formaldehyde and diacetal in your vape.

I take you at your word on this. The sad part is no matter what these studies may or may not have gone on to show, already their research is flawed.

If they were doing good science, there would not be a release of ANY information until they arrived at a conclusion they could support with their data. To anybody.

Not to me, not to you or my dead aunt. Wasted resources. When you breach the protocols of the Scientific Method, any result is tainted, and because it is wide open to accusations of flawed methodology, useless. Or worse.

 

[SMOKIE]

I take you at your word on this. The sad part is no matter what these studies may or may not have gone on to show, already their research is flawed.

If they were doing good science, there would not be a release of ANY information until they arrived at a conclusion they could support with their data. To anybody.

Not to me, not to you or my dead aunt. Wasted resources. When you breach the protocols of the Scientific Method, any result is tainted, and because it is wide open to accusations of flawed methodology, useless. Or worse.

Studies take time, then written, and published, but until then at ease soldier.

 

[OneBadWolf]

 

[always9988]

Honestly this thread and ECF warnings and threads like it give the antz plenty to work with. I think regardless of where you stand on the debate they can take a thread like this and twist it into "people know its killing them but they still do it, we have to ban it for their safety" type things. I've seen many news articles with direct quotes from these forums and everyone here is giving them something to spew out, perhaps inaccurately, but they will spread it around regardless.

 

[BoomStick]

Guy's first post resurrects a dead thread and insults a bunch of current members. What a dick. Let this thread die.

 

[5150sick]

Alot of speculation going on here, by people I really doubt have any real qualifications, other than vaping "experience", apparently perceived to imbibe knowledge! It does not. That said, I also don't easily believe all these warnings, OR reassurances laid out in the multitude of studies out there, but a legitimate study, conducted by non-partisan/unbiased facilities give you at least something to consider, and keep in mind. Peoples opinions, like those found here, just give others far too much peace of mind, when really, they are nothing more than some person, who usually thinks they are much smarter than they are, being overly optimistic, even if they try to frame their conclusions as objectively drawn.
What I'm saying is that this thread, and plenty others like it, are SO FULL OF SHIT, that anyone reading tombakers(and most of the others commenting on or starting threads like this) ramblings and "car analogies"(how the fuck is a combustible fuel engine analogous with an atomizer?!?! Because they both apply heat to a liquid?!) better realize how ridiculous it is for him to draw these conclusions based on nothing more than his own weak logic and hopes.
The simple fact is, that until we have been using these devices for long enough to see what the ramifications are, we just don't know what it will do to us. Scientific studies(i.e. discovering vapor by-products with known effects on the lungs/body) are useful, if done under normal conditions, not, for instance, at 5 volts and for periods of time far longer than most of us would ever actually vape for(apparently some of these studies have been conducted at 5 volts and pushing the device for 30 minutes+ without any cooldown time allowed- and I say "apparently", because I usually quickly dismiss the articles I check out after realizing they are unrealistic and therefore their conclusions with be invalid in real life, and by dismiss, I mean I stop wasting my time reading them and put no effort into storing what information I DID take in!).
Anyways, I think I've made my point. Starting to feel like I'm rambling now, so I'll end now.
Here's to hoping that vaping is indeed safer than smoking!

It's kind of hard for me to understand the reasoning behind a persons first post when it's blasting a 10 month old thread about members who haven't been seen in almost a year.

 

[5150sick]

I don't think conclusions concerning safety can be drawn, given there are no long term studies concerning vapers who were never smokers...

Early vapers were smokers; now we have sport vaping. Maybe in 10 years we can see a pattern develop in these never smokers who were vapers...

The problem is people who are never smokers who never lived with a smoker or spent any legnthy time around second hand smoke can and do get lung cancer.

If one of these people destined to get lung cancer no matter what they do starts vaping before their diagnosis what do you think they are going to blame the cancer on?

Lung cancer will be blamed on everything in the United States besides the gasoline combustion engine until there is nothing left but gas powered cars to blame it on.

Gas powered cars are the only thing left that America is kind of still good at making.

 

[5150sick]

There is also THIS:

Study claims 65% of cancers are caused by bad luck
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news..._plays_predominant_role_in_cancer_study_shows

 

[Whiskey]

Its very simple. There are a group of vapers that do not like the way other people vape, and are so eager to prove the others are "doing it wrong" ( different than they vape, ) that they engage in fear mongering and the propagation of psudeo-science, not realizing that their own personal, and petty overwhelming need to be the "right" kind of vaper, undermines us all.

The very fact that there is NO clear data at this point, and the righteous are eagerly mounting their soapboxes, picking and choosing bits and pieces of hearsay that fits their idea of what and how everyone should have to vape, indicate that they have no idea of how ANY dissention in the community will harm all vapers.

I find that same mentality with most topics (politics religion, etc.) other than just vaping, human psychology 101...LOL

 

[Zamazam]

and sports. I used to shoot sporting clays at an advanced amateur level. I had a "Pro" telling me that I was doing it all wrong, yet my combined scores for the course were 8 birds/clays higher consistently that his. LOL.

 

[stevegmu]

The problem is people who are never smokers who never lived with a smoker or spent any legnthy time around second hand smoke can and do get lung cancer.

If one of these people destined to get lung cancer no matter what they do starts vaping before their diagnosis what do you think they are going to blame the cancer on?

Lung cancer will be blamed on everything in the United States besides the gasoline combustion engine until there is nothing left but gas powered cars to blame it on.

Gas powered cars are the only thing left that America is kind of still good at making.

Something like 20% of the population will get cancer of some sort. If never smoker vapers start averaging 35%, then there may be a correlation...

 

[5150sick]

Something like 20% of the population will get cancer of some sort. If never smoker vapers start averaging 35%, then there may be a correlation...

True but smokers and now never smoker vapers are usually known risk takers so there could be other factors involved.
But if as you said there is a huge difference (like 15%) then there is a problem.

For us ex smokers we still will get stung with the "smoking related death" tag when we go.

Unless the government decides they want to start creating a false "vaping related death" tag early.

 

[Myk]

Many vapers have done it on a lot less like a egoT kit. There are so many great satisfying vapes out their from 1.0 to 2.0 ohms. You do not really need a Big cloud for a satisfying vape or a nicotine fix, that is all visual.

What I've found is clouds have little to do with >1Ω. More volts <1Ω=less volts >1Ω. Using TC (yes technically subΩ and low temperature I'm able to take lung hits, that is where clouds came in, air flow + amount of vapor taken in.
Before TC and me, 7-8v on 2.4Ω 26ga was able to produce OK clouds for the small airflow I had on that one.

Yes I do need clouds. While I was at 0mg waiting to be diagnosed, shortly after taking up vaping again I had a very strong feeling of calm seeing a cloud.
Post diagnosis I spent 3 years at 18mg for everything (high Ω, subΩ, dripping, TC, lung hits). Diagnosis/meds recently changed so I no longer need nicotine, dropped to 4mg in a week. I even threw in a 0mg tank a few days ago and didn't notice.
I do notice when a coil needs rebuilt and stops producing clouds. I've backed off huge lung hits most of the time but I wouldn't want to go back to MTL on an eGo-C.