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doc_iguana

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Yeah, she is! I need to mix up some soon as well. Just got the flavors for the Lizards "Peach Bourbon Cheesecake" That stuff is the bomdiggity as well. Yumm.. PEACH!

I have been SO inundated with samples, I have not cracked a commercial bottle or mixed, in MONTHS. And I am NOT complaining! I love trying all these different recipes! Although Ahlusion is fabulous juice, DIY has come a LONG way in 4 years, and we have some serious "chefs" amongst us!
#firstworldproblems
 

doc_iguana

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So agree!!! And Peach Bourbon Cheesecake?? Me thinks the iguana has been holding out on me! I think I need to have a talk wif him! ;)
holding out, psh... you were one of the folks i talked to originally when i was looking at mixing cowboy's recipe and you suggested i re-think that route... so, you KNEW it was in the works... zomg...
 

AndriaD

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heya sister! medium crazy - with the lady wife back in school, i am doing what i can to take some stuff off her plate, so been a little hectic

chuggin right along though - hope you are well :)

Well, I'm trying, hanging tough as much as possible. Lost my mom last week. But I'm trying to work my way thru it, and all the lovely folks here have helped a great deal. :)

Andria
 

chopdoc

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I experienced a bit of that credit-happy attitude myself -- I haven't had a fulltime job since 1994, yet in 2008, Bank of America INSISTED on giving me a Platinum Visa card, with a VERY low interest rate. Statistics would indicate that such a person would go apeshit and be forced to destroy that card within just a few years, particularly after the economic disaster. But I didn't. It's stayed pretty close to the limit for long periods, but I've never made a late payment, and only once accidentally went over my $4k limit. The reason I keep that card, even though I stay near that limit much of the time, is that low interest rate -- no way in HELL could I get another card, with my lack of employment history, and certainly not one with an interest rate less than 10%.

I'm not sure that unions are completely obsolete; it's just that in many ways, they go too far, destroying their effectiveness and usefulness, and in some ways, not nearly far enough -- when companies start outsourcing jobs overseas, why aren't unions going nuts and demanding compensation for their obsoleted members? That outsourcing to the 3rd world is the single biggest problem with the American economy.

Andria

Thats just it Andria, was the workers obsolete or just over paid? When a product becomes so expensive that it wont sell then what should a company do? Continue to operate at a loss until they go out of business or find ways to cut expenses. Add to that the massive taxes Obama and them heaped on them these last eight years and it was a recipe for disaster.

It is very easy to say its all big business fault but is it really? Why should any company stay in business if it can not make a profit? Yet our government is well known for pitting us against each other. Its big business fault, its whitey fault, its the upper class fault, its the middle class fault, its everyone fault but theirs. Americans need to wake up and turn the media off and open their eyes. Everyone needs to understand we are being played.
 

AndriaD

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Thats just it Andria, was the workers obsolete or just over paid? When a product becomes so expensive that it wont sell then what should a company do? Continue to operate at a loss until they go out of business or find ways to cut expenses. Add to that the massive taxes Obama and them heaped on them these last eight years and it was a recipe for disaster.

It is very easy to say its all big business fault but is it really? Why should any company stay in business if it can not make a profit? Yet our government is well known for pitting us against each other. Its big business fault, its whitey fault, its the upper class fault, its the middle class fault, its everyone fault but theirs. Americans need to wake up and turn the media off and open their eyes. Everyone needs to understand we are being played.

But that's the problem: the consumer economy. Make more, make cheap, sell lots, turn the planet into a trash heap. It's total insanity. In America's manufacturing heyday, things cost what they cost, but they didn't have this "planned obsolescence" shit built right in; they lasted a while, and if they broke, they got repaired, not tossed out so a new thing could be bought. It is killing the planet to carry on this way, and it must stop at some point, because eventually the oil will run out. Then what? We must try to get back to making our own shit, or we're gonna be up that proverbial creek, when shit can't be quickly and "cheaply" shipped round the world.

Andria
 

The Cromwell

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Yet our government is well known for pitting us against each other.

Yep. the 2 party system. why do you think they won't even let any other party debate with them?
It is all the republicans or democrats fault.
Hell it is congress's fault.
Both partys supported the financial industry's house of cards they built and still have.
Heck they have hellacious tax advantages.
Any new regs from congress to prevent it from happening again?
 

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I received a notice in the mail my health insurance company is no longer offering insurance in Arizona, matter of fact, only ONE company is offering private health insurance in Maricopa county in 2017. The price will jump 160% above what I paid this year.

This fucked up government has destroyed the insurance companies ability to compete with one-another, not allowing companies to cross state lines. Guess I'll fire myself and apply for obumercare, let them pay my bill with MY tax money. This country is so fucked its beyond repair if something very drastic doesn't happen very fast.
 

The Cromwell

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I received a notice in the mail my health insurance company is no longer offering insurance in Arizona, matter of fact, only ONE company is offering private health insurance in Maricopa county in 2017. The price will jump 160% above what I paid this year.

This fucked up government has destroyed the insurance companies ability to compete with one-another, not allowing companies to cross state lines. Guess I'll fire myself and apply for obumercare, let them pay my bill with MY tax money. This country is so fucked its beyond repair if something very drastic doesn't happen very fast.
The state line thing is a state issue not federal.
I am in KY and Have BCBS out of GA.
 

inspects

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The whole heath insurance industry is so screwed up soon none of the companies will offer insurance to anyone, or raise the rates so high nobody could afford it anyway. I'm not sure how a family can afford it now, when the rates are higher than mortgage payments.
 

MyMagicMist

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It is very easy to say its all big business fault but is it really? Why should any company stay in business if it can not make a profit? Yet our government is well known for pitting us against each other. Its big business fault, its whitey fault, its the upper class fault, its the middle class fault, its everyone fault but theirs. Americans need to wake up and turn the media off and open their eyes. Everyone needs to understand we are being played.

This is where I et cognitive dissonance. I grew up like you with a hard core strong work ethic. Did a lot of crazy hard work as a child that at times was more than adult men could handle. Fully understand the "pay your own way" & "if it's of value, earn it" concepts. Yes, I take personal responsibility and at times find myself kicking my own ass over not doing this or that, making a dumb choice here or there.

It is foolish to not also see there are external circumstances in anyone's lives. Look at all those reciting the Lord's Prayer, "accept those things I cannot change and give the wisdom to know the ones I can ...". It is a reality we all know exists even if we try defying it, there is often stuff beyond a person's control. Call it the the shit happens factor, call it life. *chuckles*

Not so much that I'm complaining or asking special treatment. I observe and comment on shit happening. I think we all do, merely part of being human. Yet, I am then accused of terrors of terrors "not owning up to my responsibility", "not earning" and the kicker is the Earth was put here for us all like the Good Book tells about the unconditional love of God. All of our belongs to all of us. Not sure about you but it kind riles me when someone tells me what I think, how I am. *sly grin* I mean fuck all, I'm trying, just ask my wife she'll tell you I'm very trying indeed. :)

Let me kick this dern box over yon a'fore I get to wound out. Pass me that coffee with the double shot of rum, Autumn sneaked up on me. A little bracer of a morn gets the blood going, not that i do, poor me can't afford it. *chuckles* "Why is the rum always gone?" :)

Need to see to cleaning out a gutter later today, maybeee, got a wee more firewood to rick too. Needs to fare off a' fore I git to any, a bit more weed eating too and a fence to reel up. *sighs* Damn heat of Summer kept us all down here and shit piled back up to get to. *smh* Piddling and pissing the days away.

Y'all be running 'er slow. :hug::hug::hug: & :):):) for one and all. :)
 

MyMagicMist

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... It is killing the planet to carry on this way, and it must stop at some point, because eventually the oil will run out.
Andria

Mamma hun, I agree with you up to there. The oil will not run out. That is a lie given to us by the Rockefeller clan. They are beholden to the Rothschild clan. Rockefeller's own Standard Oil, which branches out Exxon, Citgo, Shell and gets linked up BP (British Petroleum run by Rothschild).

The lie was given to us to create artificial scarcity in order to inflate the cost of oil sold to consumers of oil, to profit, yes. Hell, a good chemist I'm told can mix oil up synthetically for $20 a barrel or less. The Earth replenishes oil over time, how long? I'm not sure but I have two to four folks what do work in oil, a few who do lots of science stuff regarding oil tell me it does come back. ( Think it goes without saying these folks will not, cannot come forward to present the truth for highly obvious reasons. I morally cannot point to or name them either. Please accept my word of them and their facts without further evidence, despite it being contrary to do so. Know it is awkward and feel awkward to not offer further but well, 'oh look a squirrel' ... )

Oil is not finite, nothing is finite. Everything is infinite. The law of Nature does not allow for a vacuum despite being created by three. I think that's why it doesn't allow any other vacuum, the three are balanced. You got Creation, Existing, Destruction and they go cyclic in perpetual snake eating its tail fashion. Yes, I went and looked it up. Yes there are places you can. :) This isn't metaphysical boojy boojy either, there was a scientist who within the past two years proved it out mathematically. He went into the Vedas and worked through certain aspects to create free as in costless and openly free in nature energy. He has a deal with the Indian equivalent of General Electric to produce power plants using his generators. :) ( Of course, I figure he'll get screwed over for it, or he vanishes along with his technology, science, research. Can we say Tesla?)
 
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chopdoc

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This is where I et cognitive dissonance. I grew up like you with a hard core strong work ethic. Did a lot of crazy hard work as a child that at times was more than adult men could handle. Fully understand the "pay your own way" & "if it's of value, earn it" concepts. Yes, I take personal responsibility and at times find myself kicking my own ass over not doing this or that, making a dumb choice here or there.

It is foolish to not also see there are external circumstances in anyone's lives. Look at all those reciting the Lord's Prayer, "accept those things I cannot change and give the wisdom to know the ones I can ...". It is a reality we all know exists even if we try defying it, there is often stuff beyond a person's control. Call it the the shit happens factor, call it life. *chuckles*

Not so much that I'm complaining or asking special treatment. I observe and comment on shit happening. I think we all do, merely part of being human. Yet, I am then accused of terrors of terrors "not owning up to my responsibility", "not earning" and the kicker is the Earth was put here for us all like the Good Book tells about the unconditional love of God. All of our belongs to all of us. Not sure about you but it kind riles me when someone tells me what I think, how I am. *sly grin* I mean fuck all, I'm trying, just ask my wife she'll tell you I'm very trying indeed. :)

Let me kick this dern box over yon a'fore I get to wound out. Pass me that coffee with the double shot of rum, Autumn sneaked up on me. A little bracer of a morn gets the blood going, not that i do, poor me can't afford it. *chuckles* "Why is the rum always gone?" :)

Need to see to cleaning out a gutter later today, maybeee, got a wee more firewood to rick too. Needs to fare off a' fore I git to any, a bit more weed eating too and a fence to reel up. *sighs* Damn heat of Summer kept us all down here and shit piled back up to get to. *smh* Piddling and pissing the days away.

Y'all be running 'er slow. :hug::hug::hug: & :):):) for one and all. :)


Actually Morely, we are on the same page. I, like the majority of conservatives believe it is our duty as people to help those who need it. Is a person down on their luck, cant catch a break, need a hand, then by all means it is our duty as a nation of decent people to help them. Is a person unable to provide be it health or other issues then yes, we need to help them.
Problem is so many abuse this. I know families who played the system their entire life. They coach their kids to play stupid during welfare interviews so the checks wont be cut off. I personally seen this. I know people who will go out and work like a dog, as long as its for cash. They are more than capable to hold a real job but they dont want one because their checks will be cut off if they do, and when they get the check its party time with drugs and booze. I seen this with my own eyes and it disgust me for I am exactly like you described. I am old school where you work and earn what you have.
My ex came from one of those welfare families and the only reason she got off the check is because she knew how much I looked down on it. Her sister who is a year older then me been getting a check her whole life. She is capable of holding a job but never worked an honest day in her life. That is the kind of welfare abuse that I am against. I dont feel it is my place to work my ass off and pay taxes so they can be supported for life. Know what I mean?
 

Moueix

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Insurance firms in each state are protected from interstate competition by the Federal McCarran-Ferguson Act (1945)

I am sure that you already know this, Dale. Expats in most every country must have international health insurance. In my preparation for.. a hasty exit, I have obtained quotes for that insurance. Although I believe it can be used anywhere (except maybe your home country?), they ask what country you will be residing in. When I got quotes for Malaysia, it was CADILLAC insurance, $200/month. Clearly, something is MAJOR fucked up in this country.

One serious problem is the duplicity in the for profit health care game. Go to any medium or large city, and there are MANY MRI machines. And EVERY damn hospital wants to put you into it. They have payments to make. In Canada for instance, not that I want to hold THAT model up as our goal, you want an MRI, you HAVE to go to a particular hospital. You need a specialist, you might have to travel to another city. Inconvenient perhaps, but damn efficient.

Ask your doctor if Bugout is right for you... ;)
 

AndriaD

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The whole heath insurance industry is so screwed up soon none of the companies will offer insurance to anyone, or raise the rates so high nobody could afford it anyway. I'm not sure how a family can afford it now, when the rates are higher than mortgage payments.

We can't. The amount out of my husband's check to pay for the minimum plan offered by KP, which his company offers, is more than our mortgage payment, has a high deductible and high co-pay. So we say fuck it. He gets medical care thru the VA, and we get the exemption on our fed taxes because the cost would be more than 6% or 8% of his gross pay. I pay out of pocket, $150/yr, for my doc visits to get my refill scrips from my doc, and get my asthma meds gratis thru GSK's Bridges to Access program.

Andria
 

AndriaD

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This is where I et cognitive dissonance. I grew up like you with a hard core strong work ethic. Did a lot of crazy hard work as a child that at times was more than adult men could handle. Fully understand the "pay your own way" & "if it's of value, earn it" concepts. Yes, I take personal responsibility and at times find myself kicking my own ass over not doing this or that, making a dumb choice here or there.

It is foolish to not also see there are external circumstances in anyone's lives. Look at all those reciting the Lord's Prayer, "accept those things I cannot change and give the wisdom to know the ones I can ...". It is a reality we all know exists even if we try defying it, there is often stuff beyond a person's control. Call it the the shit happens factor, call it life. *chuckles*

Not so much that I'm complaining or asking special treatment. I observe and comment on shit happening. I think we all do, merely part of being human. Yet, I am then accused of terrors of terrors "not owning up to my responsibility", "not earning" and the kicker is the Earth was put here for us all like the Good Book tells about the unconditional love of God. All of our belongs to all of us. Not sure about you but it kind riles me when someone tells me what I think, how I am. *sly grin* I mean fuck all, I'm trying, just ask my wife she'll tell you I'm very trying indeed. :)

Let me kick this dern box over yon a'fore I get to wound out. Pass me that coffee with the double shot of rum, Autumn sneaked up on me. A little bracer of a morn gets the blood going, not that i do, poor me can't afford it. *chuckles* "Why is the rum always gone?" :)

Need to see to cleaning out a gutter later today, maybeee, got a wee more firewood to rick too. Needs to fare off a' fore I git to any, a bit more weed eating too and a fence to reel up. *sighs* Damn heat of Summer kept us all down here and shit piled back up to get to. *smh* Piddling and pissing the days away.

Y'all be running 'er slow. :hug::hug::hug: & :):):) for one and all. :)

That's not the Lord's prayer. The Lord's prayer is called the "paternoster" or the Our Father, because that's how it starts -- Our Father who art in heaven. The one you mentioned is the Serenity Praryer.

Andria
 

AndriaD

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Actually Morely, we are on the same page. I, like the majority of conservatives believe it is our duty as people to help those who need it. Is a person down on their luck, cant catch a break, need a hand, then by all means it is our duty as a nation of decent people to help them. Is a person unable to provide be it health or other issues then yes, we need to help them.
Problem is so many abuse this. I know families who played the system their entire life. They coach their kids to play stupid during welfare interviews so the checks wont be cut off. I personally seen this. I know people who will go out and work like a dog, as long as its for cash. They are more than capable to hold a real job but they dont want one because their checks will be cut off if they do, and when they get the check its party time with drugs and booze. I seen this with my own eyes and it disgust me for I am exactly like you described. I am old school where you work and earn what you have.
My ex came from one of those welfare families and the only reason she got off the check is because she knew how much I looked down on it. Her sister who is a year older then me been getting a check her whole life. She is capable of holding a job but never worked an honest day in her life. That is the kind of welfare abuse that I am against. I dont feel it is my place to work my ass off and pay taxes so they can be supported for life. Know what I mean?

I agree with you completely. I've even had people ask me if I've looked into federal benefits for my particular dysfucktions -- PTSD, clinical depression, agoraphobia, etc. Of course, I have not, because I can't feel that it's the fed gov't job to pay me for having things wrong with me. I get by as best I can, and thank god, I married a man who would rather have a wife at home than out in the world working.

I accept GSK's free medications for several reasons: 1) I have asthma, which absolutely requires me to keep rescue inhalers handy, or I could die; 2) I don't have insurance, because the fucking insurance companies are a) way too expensive and b) trying to practice medicine without a license; and 3) Big Pharma has more money than GOD, they can fucking well afford to provide me free medication for this permanent serious condition.

Andria
 

Reign

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Started a new med a few days ago....
Hope it does not cause me to vote for Trump.

I started a new one awhile back for insomnia up till then I wouldn't dream or have nightmares there was no in between. Now I have the most interesting lucid dreams that I can remember vividly the next day. It's like a Netflix subscription for my brain. Thankfully it has not lessened my disdain for all politicians.
 

The Cromwell

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I started a new one awhile back for insomnia up till then I wouldn't dream or have nightmares there was no in between. Now I have the most interesting lucid dreams that I can remember vividly the next day. It's like a Netflix subscription for my brain. Thankfully it has not lessened my disdain for all politicians.

Good, there is hope for me then.
 

MyMagicMist

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Actually Morely, we are on the same page. I, like the majority of conservatives believe it is our duty as people to help those who need it. Is a person down on their luck, cant catch a break, need a hand, then by all means it is our duty as a nation of decent people to help them. Is a person unable to provide be it health or other issues then yes, we need to help them.
Problem is so many abuse this. I know families who played the system their entire life. They coach their kids to play stupid during welfare interviews so the checks wont be cut off. I personally seen this. I know people who will go out and work like a dog, as long as its for cash. They are more than capable to hold a real job but they dont want one because their checks will be cut off if they do, and when they get the check its party time with drugs and booze. I seen this with my own eyes and it disgust me for I am exactly like you described. I am old school where you work and earn what you have.
My ex came from one of those welfare families and the only reason she got off the check is because she knew how much I looked down on it. Her sister who is a year older then me been getting a check her whole life. She is capable of holding a job but never worked an honest day in her life. That is the kind of welfare abuse that I am against. I dont feel it is my place to work my ass off and pay taxes so they can be supported for life. Know what I mean?

I genuinely do because like you I've seen it too. In my case it's a matter of early ran miles catching up. Bad hypertension is no help either, especially not when a doctor whispers in your ear, "want another stroke? Keep going like you do." He had been made aware by some in our community of me. Had a fit of collapsing while going hard at some fast food work. That was the day he put me on blood pressure medicine.

It helps but I still have to watch going too fast, too hard at it. I'm sure you know the feeling there, the "oh, slow down dumb-ass headaches". The physical stuff is not so much, individual issues, all added up though and mixed with being a bit mentally off well I do not feel up to pro level par. That's me being responsible and knowing some days I might do 80%, or 40% if lucky. One is my halfway, the other a fourth. I don't feel right not giving 120% and it fucks with me.

No, I am not a whiner or victim. I am a survivor because there's times I push when I ought not. Unfortunately my little lanky ass don't bounce back up from being knocked down as quick as it used to do. Yes, I'm a 'young pup' by a lot of folk's reckoning, tack the miles over the years though and that matches the old soul if I have one.

We had a guy in the Baptist church in VA. He was a young boy who they were trying to reach. His mom would dope out his child support, get the welfare, drive town cars and eat high hog. She kept coaching him to follow her lead. He played good basketball and that might have been an anchor for him. Sadly, his mom pulled the I'm your poor momma card and steered him to stay with her and avoid the do gooders.

Yes, I agree it can be abused. I very much dislike it being abused as well. It hurts those who do need genuinely and brings out the old hard asses cranking on everyone. *chuckles* Bah, quit sending the rain my way you cross eyed pelican beaked zebra striped gibbon monkey, you. Ha! I just got racial on your butt. :) :giggle: Got stuff outside to do, damn it. Not able to do in the rain because well, you just aren't able to. *grumbles, fusses, shakes head* "Well, piss!"
 

MyMagicMist

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That's not the Lord's prayer. The Lord's prayer is called the "paternoster" or the Our Father, because that's how it starts -- Our Father who art in heaven. The one you mentioned is the Serenity Praryer.

Andria

Ah. Whoops. Darn me being an atheist what got raised Mennonite yet done forgot something like that. I'd get rounded up by an 'aunt' in the Mennonite church, sent out with the Amish cousins to go raise barns, rain, snow or sun. "You need to 'member them two better Benjamin. Being the 'son of the wilds' grants you no excuse before our Father. Go build barns to help you 'member better." "*sigh* "yes'm." :) At least I'm not my evil twin, Neb. ;) Or, am I? Oh no, now I'm all contused. They'll want to observe me. Wonder if they got the funky anal probes from the aliens yet? * goes ambling on lost in pondering *

ETA: Wife has taken to letting me be dubbed the house hubbay. I'll do laundry, crawl up under vehicles in the freezing squal snow to drain a radiator, mow, tend critters, was dishes, sweep, dust, help cook if asked, clean toilet, wipe down walls. I won't do windows. *chuckles* I do what I can, best I can. She does too. She could not get a decent paying job once due to her eyesight. Ergo, we do kind of need to ask for some help. I too don't quite think the government ought to foot my bills. At the same time they have been all kinds of trying to piss me off over my life, why not let them do a bit of aggravation pay?
 
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AndriaD

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Ah. Whoops. Darn me being an atheist what got raised Mennonite yet done forgot something like that. I'd get rounded up by an 'aunt' in the Mennonite church, sent out with the Amish cousins to go raise barns, rain, snow or sun. "You need to 'member them two better Benjamin. Being the 'son of the wilds' grants you no excuse before our Father. Go build barns to help you 'member better." "*sigh* "yes'm." :) At least I'm not my evil twin, Neb. ;) Or, am I? Oh no, now I'm all contused. They'll want to observe me. Wonder if they got the funky anal probes from the aliens yet? * goes ambling on lost in pondering *

That was particularly sharp to me because that AA meeting I attended last Saturday, at closing, rather than saying the Serenity prayer, an AA mainstay, they said the Lord's prayer. WTF??????? I won't be attending that meeting again, as they seem to feel that the christian god has something to do with AA -- it doesn't. It's supposed to be completely non-specific... like the Serenity prayer!

Andria
 

Moueix

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Some cannot understand freedom from religion.
The founding fathers ran from church and state and it is a constant battle by some to reinstate a religious government.

Grand, but false. The founding fathers were more worried about the States intervention in the churches, or the possibility of the State making their OWN church, ala England, than vice versa although it was surely part of the consideration. In fact, the constitutional convention was OPENED by the founding fathers, WITH a prayer to God. In fact, Benjamin Franklins OWN words during the convention:

"Before I sit down, Mr. President, I will suggest another matter; and I am really surprised that it has not been proposed by some other member at an earlier period of our deliberations. I will suggest, Mr. President, that propriety of nominating and appointing, before we separate, a chaplain to this Convention, whose duty it shall be uniformly to assemble with us, and introduce the business of each day by and address to the Creator of the universe, and the Governor of all nations, beseeching Him to preside in our council, enlighten our minds with a portion of heavenly wisdom, influence our hearts with a love of truth and justice, and crown our labors with complete and abundant success!"

I'm all for religious freedom, but not rewriting the history books.
 

AndriaD

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I think the Founding Fathers did believe in God; it was a religious time, everyone was busy bothering god about this that and the other thing. But I believe that the Founding Fathers' wisdom was in recognizing that no man and no gov't had the right to dictate matters of religion, that it was and should be and must remain a personal, individual choice. THAT was their genius, in a great sea of coercive uniformity.

Andria
 

Moueix

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"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

WHERE in there, do the founding fathers condemn religion from the Halls of the People? This is an old fight. I won't belabor it. Surely, many in our school systems are developing a good moral compass WITHOUT religion. I think it is pretty obvious though, that FAR many more, are just NOT.

I always thought this was kinda funny. "As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in schools".
 

The Cromwell

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"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

WHERE in there, do the founding fathers condemn religion from the Halls of the People? This is an old fight. I won't belabor it. Surely, many in our school systems are developing a good moral compass WITHOUT religion. I think it is pretty obvious though, that FAR many more, are just NOT.

I always thought this was kinda funny. "As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in schools".
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.

People can pray and such as they wish the govt just cannot mandate it.

If prayer is required in schools it is a mandate.
 

Moueix

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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.

People can pray and such as they wish the govt just cannot mandate it.

If prayer is required in schools it is a mandate.

I am definitely NOT a proponent of government mandates regarding religion. I am however, disturbed by the trend to force theists into the closet by those who hold up extremists to validate their beliefs that religion is evil. As in all things, this is a pendulum, and it has swung far too far in the opposite direction now. Religious persecution is just as ugly coming from atheists.
 

The Cromwell

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I am definitely NOT a proponent of government mandates regarding religion. I am however, disturbed by the trend to force theists into the closet by those who hold up extremists to validate their beliefs that religion is evil. As in all things, this is a pendulum, and it has swung far too far in the opposite direction now. Religious persecution is just as ugly coming from atheists.
Yep some of us non believers are not atheists. Atheism is kind of a religion in itself and I believe in no religion.

For me if they leave me alone I leave them alone.
 

Moueix

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Yep some of us non believers are not atheists. Atheism is kind of a religion in itself and I believe in no religion.

For me if they leave me alone I leave them alone.

Well, therein lies the rub. Many religions mandate that their believers go out and "spread the word". So in exercising their religious freedom, they seek to "impose" their beliefs on others. They don't see it that way, they believe they are trying to "enlighten".

It may have been self serving of the religions to mandate that, or it may actually be Gods will, I dunno. I admit that I do not KNOW anything regarding religion. It is faith based, by nature.

But what bothers me, is the SAME guy that is pestered to sign a petition by someone holding an opposite social belief that DOES directly affect his life, will just respect the others right to his opinions and beliefs, and just move on, but will openly CHALLENGE the beliefs of someone wanting a moment to do what their religious beliefs tell them to do. Even though THAT guys beliefs have NO sway on his life, whatsoever. Why IS that?
 

The Cromwell

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Well, therein lies the rub. Many religions mandate that their believers go out and "spread the word". So in exercising their religious freedom, they seek to impose their beliefs on others. It may have been self serving of the religions to mandate that, or it may actually be Gods will, I dunno. I admit that I do not KNOW anything regarding religion. It is faith based, by nature.

But what bothers me, is the SAME guy that is pestered to sign a petition by someone holding an opposite social belief that DOES directly affect his life, will just respect the others right to his opinions and beliefs, and just move on, but will openly CHALLENGE the beliefs of someone wanting a moment to do what their religious beliefs tell them to do. Even though THAT guys beliefs have NO sway on his life, whatsoever. Why IS that?
Why is that? Because the majority of humans are pretty messed up and feel that their way is the correct way. Everyone must be like them. Difference is forbidden.

Believers and nonbelievers alike.
 

chopdoc

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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.

People can pray and such as they wish the govt just cannot mandate it.

If prayer is required in schools it is a mandate.

And if a law has been made prohibiting prayer in school is also against the constitution but people just dont seem to give a shit about that.

Im not an overly religious person but I am a believer. The amount of times I been to any form of church for any reasons since I become an adult can probably be counted on ten fingers with many fingers not counting. I havent touched a bible in years yet I use to love to read, especially Revelations and the book of Daniel dealing with the prophecies of the end of times. The way everyone has been becoming anti Christian recently makes me think of those prophecies.

How people are I can really give a rats ass. If someone believes or doesn't believe, that is their business yet some things in this crusade against Christianity is plain wrong. A child is punished and ridiculed for praying in school. What part of no prohibition on the free exercise of religion did they not understand? A group is told they can not send care packages to our troops because they are Christians. WTF?

These things I think about at times. Is the world in control of the wicked one? Are prophecies about to be fulfilled? Damn if I know but I do think about it at times.
 

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