RocketPuppy
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How do you vape solely vg? There aren't that many flavors available.
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Just curious about "bad" flavors..
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lol.. no telling on duplicates etc..
but i plan on sticking with my resolution and getting them cleaned up and organized so i can convert them..
is why i am picking out companies and seeing what all i can and cant work with..
RP.. did you see how i did peach overload?? tiny micro recipes put together.. blended..
less is more.. and eventually even the 50 yr smoker gets their taste buds back..
not that i am that old
but i plan on sticking with my resolution and getting them cleaned up and organized so i can convert them..
is why i am picking out companies and seeing what all i can and cant work with..
RP.. did you see how i did peach overload?? tiny micro recipes put together.. blended..
less is more.. and eventually even the 50 yr smoker gets their taste buds back..
not that i am that old
Now there is a good example of misinformation. Just because you read something on the internet does not make it true.
I have read the actual reports given so far and your claims are simply not true.
At this time, there is not a single thing that says short or long term inhalation of acetoin at the levels found in flavors cause any negative health affects. Not one. Even diacetyl is just a "maybe". No one actually knows if any of them are harmful at all. To state anything different is misinformation or as you put it, ignorant or dishonest.
Errr, say what??? And just what is your authority for making such blanket -- and erroneous -- statements? How about posting up an image showing your PhD in medicine, biochemistry, mico-biology. I have ZERO TOLERANCE for any spreading FUD on this topic. Here is one, just one, study directly refuting such nonsense.
People don't want this crap is in their juice. Got it? Okay? Kabesh? And I personally believe we have some suppliers who should already occupy a prison cells for criminal negligence and fraud. Perhaps you might want to do a little research on the millions of dollars paid by popcorn manufacturers for lawsuits and legal fees -- and that was over TEN YEARS AGO. Don't play games -- get this shit out of our juice -- or suffer the consequences.
RocketPuppy
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Love you LV. Capisce! =)
What flavor has 125 mg/kg? If I dump a rat in chamber of water and leave it in till drowns, do I get to claim that the steam from my boiling potato pot is damaging my lungs because water killed the rat? Or maybe we could make a rat vape pure nicotine so it dies and then make all the vendors take nic out of their products because surely, if pure nic in the lungs is harmful so is 6mg/ml.
I'll say it again since you missed it last time. There is not one single study or scientific paper on the long term health effects of acetoin on lungs at the amount found in flavors. My authority is the lack of any such study.
I don't care if your face turns red, you yell with caps on, you firmly insist or anything else. A fact is a fact. Acetoin is not proven to be harmful at vaping levels. However, I will concede that if you use it to drown a rat, it will be harmful to the rat. You surely did prove that.
And really? You are going to sit there and tell me what people want? Because it's what you want, everyone else has to want it too? I'm afraid a few people on a forum isn't a ligitimate cross section of "people".
Time, do you sell juice?
Good. You may want to read up on how long term effects are estimated/determined in scientific research. This is how it's done, and has been done over the last century.
You may want to read up about the difference between a little and a lot. Maybe when we're both on the same page, we can discuss it again.
wllmc
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I just read this on the internet !Now there is a good example of misinformation. Just because you read something on the internet does not make it true.
I have read the actual reports given so far and your claims are simply not true.
At this time, there is not a single thing that says short or long term inhalation of acetoin at the levels found in flavors cause any negative health affects. Not one. Even diacetyl is just a "maybe". No one actually knows if any of them are harmful at all. To state anything different is misinformation or as you put it, ignorant or dishonest.
thing is, Time is right.. there are no studies on Acetoin.. yet.. not for us vapers..
injecting a small rat with a mega dose.. is one thing.. take into consideration body weight, inhalation...
but there is a good one that i am interested in and that is vaping temperatures..
that will turn out quiet interesting.. and looking at my mech and dripper.. makes me think..
i dont know on vv/vw.. i did have a mvp1 &2 but that has been forever..
kind of forgotten how turning up does and if i even liked it..
injecting a small rat with a mega dose.. is one thing.. take into consideration body weight, inhalation...
but there is a good one that i am interested in and that is vaping temperatures..
that will turn out quiet interesting.. and looking at my mech and dripper.. makes me think..
i dont know on vv/vw.. i did have a mvp1 &2 but that has been forever..
kind of forgotten how turning up does and if i even liked it..
wllmc
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how can you say time is right and in the same breathe acknowledge there are no studies. what ground do you stand on with that ? Im trying to make light on the subject and throw some jokes in here because this whole mess has caused a lot of chaos in this section of vaping underground. lines have been drawn and sides have been taken and its all stupid. we should all be on the same team. why is one better than the other because it fits a certain agenda or preference ? there are obviously studies that show everyone here is right. so lets talk about all of it or none of it . we should be concerned with all of it. why leave anything un tested. I for one am sick of it all I almost hate logging on here anymore. its like election season lol.
thing is, do you know of anyone.. at all.. testing specifically for Acetoin? I don't.. haven't found any at all..
and i love googling.. so yes, i can say in that aspect, Time is right.. that is what gives me that right.
and yes it has become hell.. i am only one person, but i am noticing a few around here are just like me, in only asking questions.. why shouldn't we?
lines have been drawn? only by those that have. i have no lines until i have proof.
talking really should not upset people.. if it does.. then walk away for a bit.. take some r&r.. its good for one's soul..
agenda... that is a good topic.. i need to convert some recipes.. so yes, i have an agenda to do so.. that is all..
i do not want to pay for testing dirty juice and waste money.. that would suck!
and yeah we pretty much are talking bout it all.. thing is, is anyone listening?
it's to the point were i really hate to see us, as talented as we all are, at each other, over testing that i haven't found.
so yeah we all have that in common too..
if i had a lab and know what the hell i was doing.. id be happy..
but also there are other sides to this.. and the biggest is we all want to vape safe..
you guys want to keep touting how safe fa is??
this is what i turned up on their site.. check it out.. cuz i have..
if you'd like to take a look at these links, and the info is current.. i have issues with..
http://flavourartexpress.biz/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=643
http://flavourartexpress.biz/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=620
http://flavourartexpress.biz/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=619
http://flavourartexpress.biz/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=674
http://flavourartexpress.biz/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=648
http://flavourartexpress.biz/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=601
http://flavourartexpress.biz/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=666
http://flavourartexpress.biz/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=666
http://flavourartexpress.biz/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=665
and yes, here they say kitchen.. but i know at least one vendor.. and there might be more out there.. that does not mark these as kitchen use, not for vaping!
and i have to sit here and wonder..
when there are a few new companies popping up.. and one in particular that tests each batch..
but yet people have issues with it..
and from tfa
https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/specsheetlist.aspx
my question is, what to use now.. to fix my recipes?
why do you think i am staying away from the fa thread now?
i mean, really.. i do not feel like i am welcome with all the disagreements and set attitudes.. it's not fun for me..
when i get jumped on for telling someone a short cut to googling.. like it is a sin to tell someone to search for something on their own?
and then when we talk on safety?
but i do not think i am in the wrong, wllmc.. i think that i am taken wrong..
i mean, really.. i do not feel like i am welcome with all the disagreements and set attitudes.. it's not fun for me..
when i get jumped on for telling someone a short cut to googling.. like it is a sin to tell someone to search for something on their own?
and then when we talk on safety?
but i do not think i am in the wrong, wllmc.. i think that i am taken wrong..
wllmc
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I didnt say you were wrong or right smoky. just because it hasnt been tested for does that mean I should not be concerned about it ? what if I want to be ? what about if I think it should be tested for ? thats my point. I still have not said you were wrong anywhere. and ya you drew the line when you told me you were done with me in that PM just because I agreed with HIC about this topic. you dont want anything to do with me because of that. I never said anything hateful ever to you. me and you had stayed friends for awhile through a lot of the past debates so why now ? HIC has been a super great friend to me for a long time and we see eye to eye on a lot of things so naturally we share a lot of the same opinions. and thats what they are to me , opinions. I wish there was an answer to all of our questions but right now there are not. so know one is really right or wrong the way I see it. honestly I'd rather vape small amounts of diacetyl than the other 2 but thats between me and my mind.
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wllmc.. i didn't say we can not be concerned.. we do not know, because no one is testing.. who does the tests? has it been brought up to them? how to we make it known we want it tested? what should we be concerned with before during and after? who do we bring this to?
no. i was done with the agrueing.. the no smoky we cant do that.. i have heard this on facebook and its an instant turn off.. and if i hadn't walked away, i know i would have said even more. i do not think that you guys look at it from any other point of view.. i dont. when there is no facts, yet.
yes, we assume a lot of things.. but that is what gets us all into trouble.. when i start loosing respect, and patience.. i am going to have to say i am done.
this is not like any of us at all. and i know. we can be the nicest people.. but throw in a controversial discussion and everyone gets hot.. human nature
that is cool about friendships.. one can still think and do something.. like vaping the bad stuff, but yet wanting another.. you guys are still friends at the end of the day.. thing is.. i am normally not vocal on any of the forums or fb.. most on my fb dont even see how i am with my recipes.. this is the only place i have posted.. and stuck around.. why? because i know for a fact, i do have near and dear friends that have known me for a while..
the point i am bringing up tho, is serious.. how often do other flavor companies test for the bad stuff?
things can happen from batch to batch..
but yet, i am the bad person for even asking.. go figure..
wllmc
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lets agree to agree then because I do see your points, and times points, and vapespaces points, and lovevanilla and rocket puppy and HIC. for me its all information that allows me to make my decisions on what I vape. have a good day everyone not trying to hijack the thread.
it's not a hijack, wllmc.. and yes i see it from every which way i turn it..
now on those fa flavors.. lol.. some of these i use.. now i am having to search out alternatives..
and if there is a company out there, with proof their flavors and juices passes inspection..
i'd be stupid to not see where my trip may end..
i do not want to shell out 1k for testing my juice, when my flavors are in doubt.
and it plainly says those have the bad stuff in there..
for everyone running around and touting the kitchen vs vaping line.. ecx will get a copy of this.. so they can fix their site..
but how many others mark flavors? and trusting companies?
did you know using clean flavors makes clean juice?
and for those that put stock into a company.. that the vaping line is clear.. if someone did get sick, or the testing was not passed..
its a law suit. yeps.
i dont know bout you all.. but i am here to talk, learn and improve..
yeah it might not be popular.. but like i said.. i dont want to kiss ass.. and i dont want anyone kissing mine..
i dont want things candy coated.. but to be jumped on.. is not cool.
I just posted over in the Flavoring review section a listing of all the FW flavors that they released which contain at least one of the big 3 D/A/AP
http://vapingunderground.com/threads/flavor-west-ingredient-list.39914/
http://vapingunderground.com/threads/flavor-west-ingredient-list.39914/
it's not just that.. says milk flavor.. which one? and cream flavor, which one?
and dont forget the red wine.. but yet these are in the vaping line.. hmm.. in how many vendor shops?
and dont forget the red wine..
but yet these are in the vaping line.. hmm.. in how many vendor shops?
good thing! thanks Velvet..
i am not picking at just one.. heck i would love to see all flavor makers clean up their act.. for our sake..
and if they want to stay in business.. they need to..
there are newer companies that have proven they can be clean.. so lets sit back and watch..
i think it's worth it..
no, we all will not see eye to eye.. but if it is clean, i will be happier..
it's not just that.. says milk flavor.. which one? and cream flavor, which one?
and dont forget the red wine..
Milk flavor, is simply that. Milk Flavor.
Cream flavor is Whipped Cream. NOT fresh cream, NOT Vienna cream.
Red Wine was pulled from the FA Ecig line after re-testing. When? I do not know. Just adding information I thought could be helpful.
Also... Pistachio was also reformulated by FA and does NOT contain the diketones, now. So, unless they are carrying the old one until they replace it with the new one, they need to update that at any re-seller, including the ones that do contain them.
Again, just adding information I thought could be helpful.
red wine is sold by ecigexpress and apparently the fa site too.. i just got a bottle..
and as always.. unless i see some sort of testing on anything creamy/milky makes me wonder..
and this is coming from their site.. if it has been pulled.. why is it still showing up? why have they not updated?
and the other issue i have.. clearstream "by" flavorart.. thats like me running my own tests.. if i own the tests.. well..
and as always.. unless i see some sort of testing on anything creamy/milky makes me wonder..
and this is coming from their site.. if it has been pulled.. why is it still showing up? why have they not updated?
and the other issue i have.. clearstream "by" flavorart.. thats like me running my own tests.. if i own the tests.. well..
Maybe because time has not made any other claim except that there are no studies. I don't know what level of acetoin is safe or harmful. I do know that sniffing my raspberries in the summer that have acetion, and many other fruits, dairy and other foodstuffs isn't going to harm my lungs. I also know sniffing lots of pure acetoin all at once would likely be harmful.
It is a false statement for anyone to claim that any amount of acetion is known to harmful. It's not true, it's hype, it's fear mongering, it's misleading and dishonest.
I agree with the rest of your post. I'm relatively new here. I don't belong to any of the cliques that appear to have formed elsewhere because I have gone back and read most every thread in the DIY section at VU and I don't see the start of any of it. The misinformation, conflicting information, and loyalties are nightmare to wade through. I had a choice. Quit coming here or try to get some direct answers. I really wanted to stay out of it and did until this thread when I found a reasonable person to discuss it with. How long I stay interested in this topic on this forum wholly depends on how this thread goes. I have no intention spending the next few months arguing with unreasonable people. I might give it a couple weeks and see how it plays out.
Time, I agree.. I do not want to argue, and we all pretty much know.. until studies are done.. until the proof is in the vape..
we won't know.. and taking sides.. or supporting one vendor vs another.. only serves to detrack from the goal.
i can point out at least 1 flavoring from each company..
but i can also point out who does testing more..
and that there are new ones with claims, and some are true and others are guessing..
but until we take the acetoin to a lab and have it tested.. no one knows.
until we do know..
I have to agree with Smoky. Everyone IS concerned with "safe". Right now the unanswered questions are...
Which ones?
How much of X is "safe"?
What are the risks of using it for inhalation at normal inclusion levels?
WHAT that may be potentially harmful, is in every makers flavors?
So! ......
Lets find some common ground, shall we?
What should testing be done for specifically? What chemical compounds or trace elements should we expect testing to show us?
How often should testing be done? Per batch? Every so many months?
Where should we be able to find the results of the testing?
What should each flavor be labeled for?
Should flavors be CLEARLY labeled for "inhalation safe"? And if so, what criteria should be use to arrive at what it "safe"?
Which ones?
How much of X is "safe"?
What are the risks of using it for inhalation at normal inclusion levels?
WHAT that may be potentially harmful, is in every makers flavors?
So! ......
Lets find some common ground, shall we?
What should testing be done for specifically? What chemical compounds or trace elements should we expect testing to show us?
How often should testing be done? Per batch? Every so many months?
Where should we be able to find the results of the testing?
What should each flavor be labeled for?
Should flavors be CLEARLY labeled for "inhalation safe"? And if so, what criteria should be use to arrive at what it "safe"?
most labs keep a retainer on batches.. so frequent testing should not be an issue..
hanging those tests should be a badge, a piece of pride.. not an unknown..
if we know there are bad things in it, mark it.. if its safe but still questionable.. say so..
there should be mandatory rules for flavor creationist.. common sense ones..
however.. with more testing, more requirements.. if you think nicvape is expensive now..
just wait till the summer when the fda raises it's head.
hanging those tests should be a badge, a piece of pride.. not an unknown..
if we know there are bad things in it, mark it.. if its safe but still questionable.. say so..
there should be mandatory rules for flavor creationist.. common sense ones..
however.. with more testing, more requirements.. if you think nicvape is expensive now..
just wait till the summer when the fda raises it's head.
Well not exactly ... as pointed out by LV, there are studies that show Acetion as being harmful and with resulting symptoms almost identical to Diacetyl.
What we don't know or at least what hasn't been proven to date is the associated risk factor as it pertains to vaping.
Not trying to be argumentative, I just think that distinction is important.
that has been pointed out
like i said.. body weight and inhalation..
that study was done for injection.. not to say anything bad at all..
but this is what i have been saying all along.
what kind of tests, independent lab.. show off those tests.. frequency..
any time you are converting any sort of liquid to vapor, things are subject to change..
is why i am interested in the heat test they are taking up funds for..
What is important (and to be fair, I have not read the report referenced) is anything in MASS EXCESS is harmful. Even water. Drinking too much water can kill you. There are reported deaths from doing so. Last one I heard of was from a radio station running a contest.
So perspective is important, IMO.
Not arguing, just adding my thoughts.
We agree. I must not be communicating very well. That has been my point all along. I would only point out that the proportions are not the same to get almost identical symptoms. It still comes down to how much. They are not equal. Not in the studies I've read.
You don't see me arguing with anyone that has an opinion that acetoin might be harmful at vaping levels. Only the person that claims it's a proven scientific fact. It's not.
And I'll add that I appreciate your input.
RocketPuppy
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There are many studies, and ones currently in progress, that are not based on injecting rats. The data on humans working in flavor manufacturing plants across the US are being scrutinized. These studies look at the big three and other compounds that pose inhalation risks. The flavor manufacturing plants are not those that solely deal with the famous popcorn flavorings, and thus far, the big three are thought to result in permanent lung damage, with further tests in progress.
Vaping is a relatively new study, and we can agree that more studies are necessary. A year ago, ECX didn't have any warnings, and with our (the vaping community's strength) protest, labeling products that contain Diacetyl are now displayed.
Whether a person believes there to be a risk or not doesn't matter, but having the knowledge to make that choice is important.
If one chooses to be cautious or not, one cannot do so without having any information.
ok let me rephrase it..
completed studies.. for us vapors.. as there is not a single one on Acetoin alone, all by itself.
i'd rather look at facts, i have been saying this all along. There is not a thing I have changed in what I am saying.
but going round and round is getting a bit old..
i have asked many questions thru out my thread here.. not many have been answered..
why is that? oops yet another question.. and i dont expect an answer.. these are things i think of and wonder myself..
as some, unless tested, can not be replied to.
tick22
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and everyone wonders why new DIYers just lurk and PM people. It's because of the BS groups of people who think they Know it all and God forbid you disagree with them.
Vaping is new and with all the other studies done that are disproved daily, you still believe them??? Talk about dumb people. Milk is good, not bad, no good. Peanut butter is good, is bad etc.
I feel that anything I do with vaping is safer than smoking cigs. I am older and really don't fucking care what the elitists say, or those "It's not safe because a study paid for by who knows who says so".
If you want to be healthy, grow your own food, cattle, and stop buying anything from a store or better yet go to Europe.
Your all beating a dead horse to death.
back to some what lurking.
This place is as bad as ECF anymore....
Vaping is new and with all the other studies done that are disproved daily, you still believe them??? Talk about dumb people. Milk is good, not bad, no good. Peanut butter is good, is bad etc.
I feel that anything I do with vaping is safer than smoking cigs. I am older and really don't fucking care what the elitists say, or those "It's not safe because a study paid for by who knows who says so".
If you want to be healthy, grow your own food, cattle, and stop buying anything from a store or better yet go to Europe.
Your all beating a dead horse to death.
back to some what lurking.
This place is as bad as ECF anymore....
RocketPuppy
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I don't know everything, and I don't pretend to know everything. I'm not sure why trying to find out more about something became bullshit.
I'm not sure if you're inferring that I'm an elitist or part of some BS group, but I'm not a part of anyone's group or agenda. I want to be tactful, but this is uncalled for. I don't give a fuck about groups or cliques or sides or whatever. If someone is spouting something that I don't understand, whether it be an acquaintance or not, I will try to rationally and thoughtfully question it. Being able to question and find information is central in learning and understanding. There is so much misinformation here, and it's a disservice for new people to come here only to find erroneous information.
When I first started vaping and then DIY, I lurked for about a year before I said anything. This is a natural progression into a new undertaking.
If someone has a personal issue, can we please fucking take it out of the threads and message people instead? I know that I have asked personal questions here, and I too will refrain from doing so.
umm been that way for me too.. when i told someone to use google to search for more recipes, flavor reviews etc.. i got slammed..
how dare i tell someone to go beyond this forum.. bad Smoky!
i wont even go into the group thing.. but id like to know where the mis information is in any of these posts.. can you show me?
and a new rule, the only one on vu now.. is new people should not even think on posting for a whole year? only lurk?
this is not a personal issue.. this is about flavorings, testing in proper labs (not owned by a flavor company!), frequently for bad flavors.. and who carries them.. i started this thread because i want to know.. i know there are others out there too, that want the same.. i shouldn't and no one else should feel they can not post to ask a question..
sorry if any of my posts seem like they are coming off wrong.. but then there has been a lot of im sorry's on this thread..
until some one can prove all my questions, I will wait.. but i wont be scared to post up.
RocketPuppy
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RocketPuppy
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That's not what I said. I said that I personally waited a year until I was comfortable.
ok, sorry, i took that as you were telling Tick to wait a year.. i was like what?? due to the next sentence you put.. """This is a natural progression into a new undertaking"""
as to your edited post.. umm.. i started this thread..
no i am not in every thread.. and i am not hiding behind other avatars.. I am not Tick.. Time or anyone else.
now back to the topic of my thread, please. I think maybe i need to find a lab tech.. or someone knowledgeable.. with zero ties to other flavor manufacturers.. to answer my questions.. I can wait.. and i will hunt it down, since i cant seem to either make myself become understood.. or without all this drama..
RocketPuppy
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I try to stay away from telling anyone to do anything.
in fact i was trying to trace back.. clearstream by flavorart..
so flavorart has clearstream, a lab.. owned or paid for by flavorart..
so flavorart has clearstream, a lab.. owned or paid for by flavorart..
see we have big t, trying to have access to the ecigs.. we have the eu commission trying to regulate over there..
are the results being paid for by the governments? (influenced)
because honestly, look around.. anyone dying over vaping??
beyond the tales of kids drinking nicotine.. has anyone heard of any body that has gotten sick, or died yet?
so really how toxic is the juice and units we use to vape from?
think i will go mix up some juices.. im low and will have to wait for all these questions to be answered..
or when i can find info or someone neutral to help out..
not trying to be snappy, or short.. but the accusations really need to stop.
are the results being paid for by the governments? (influenced)
because honestly, look around.. anyone dying over vaping??
beyond the tales of kids drinking nicotine.. has anyone heard of any body that has gotten sick, or died yet?
so really how toxic is the juice and units we use to vape from?
think i will go mix up some juices.. im low and will have to wait for all these questions to be answered..
or when i can find info or someone neutral to help out..
not trying to be snappy, or short.. but the accusations really need to stop.
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jamieg71
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Hey Smokey, I'm mostly a lurker here at VU and honestly haven't lurked all that long. Just to put it out there, I'm glad you started this thread, not surprised by some of the "drama" that's happened, but hey its the internet right.
Also, I come from an android back ground and forums like XDA, so allow me to add one small thing,
Asking someone to use a google search.. Really is a very polite thing. On some forums, having not used google search before broaching a question is grounds for having one's IP address blocked and permanent banning. Seriously, how does one get upset by being asked to do a simple search?
Anywoo, thanks for this thread, thanks for so many of your other threads, and please, continue on in this quest for truth and understanding. Some folks would argue the weather while sitting on the beach getting a tan... It's not you.
My apologies for the OT post.
thanks @jamieg71 i appreciate your post..
i just want honest answers.. i want to see real lab reports.. not a graph or pretty pic or a newpaper article.. facts.
the problem is there is not a finished lab report yet..
i hope one day someone will test for what we all are wanting.. who ever that may be.. they will put a lot of people at ease..
i just want honest answers.. i want to see real lab reports.. not a graph or pretty pic or a newpaper article.. facts.
the problem is there is not a finished lab report yet..
i hope one day someone will test for what we all are wanting.. who ever that may be.. they will put a lot of people at ease..
RocketPuppy
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Of topic. In most contexts, a Google search makes sense. VU has a dedicated thread to Flavourart questions. Someone asked a Flavourart question, and Smoky said to google it. The thread is specifically for those types of questions.
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jamieg71
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I'm sure in time we will have a much better understanding of all that is occurring with the variety of chemicals and methods used while vaping. My biggest worry is that before that occurs, big tobacco and the FDA will have slammed the hammer down and we will be left with what they allow through regulation. Almost a guarantee that it won't be safe, it won't be in our best interests either. For me, I'm like you, I want to know what I'm putting in my body, and what kind if adverse effects there may be. However, that being said, I'd rather DIY a recipe with what, (at this time) we believe to be "safe" ingredients, than go back to Marlboros. Again, thanks for the thread, I'm gonna return to the corner my girl told me to sit in yesterday and continue to lurk.
yes, it is.. however.. i attempted to help teach someone a little something.. note: attempted.
sure, i could have spelled out taste texture and 15 recipes.. but sometimes it's nice to see other opinions/results from other points of view..
maybe i am the weird one.. but i like looking all all options.. not just narrowed down to a few select people.. i think the foriegn sites come up with some pretty cool recipes..
someone recently asked on my 6+ gigs of recipes.. they all sure did not come from the us.. or just one forum..
ideas are what makes the world go round and not flat like a pancake..
I'm sure in time we will have a much better understanding of all that is occurring with the variety of chemicals and methods used while vaping. My biggest worry is that before that occurs, big tobacco and the FDA will have slammed the hammer down and we will be left with what they allow through regulation. Almost a guarantee that it won't be safe, it won't be in our best interests either. For me, I'm like you, I want to know what I'm putting in my body, and what kind if adverse effects there may be. However, that being said, I'd rather DIY a recipe with what, (at this time) we believe to be "safe" ingredients, than go back to Marlboros. Again, thanks for the thread, I'm gonna return to the corner my girl told me to sit in yesterday and continue to lurk.
lol don't blame you.. playing with my nicvape flavors right now and enjoying the new smells and imagining all sorts of recipes i can make with these..
i think they are kind of special..
RocketPuppy
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If you're still making recipes with flavors known to have diacetyl, then why are you looking for info on which flavors have it? I guess I don't understand.
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RocketPuppy
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Don't worry. I'll leave this thread. Goodbye
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