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FDA REGULATIONS: DON'T PANIC!

Barbara E.

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For those that said DHL does not care, a package of mine is being held in customs and was being delivered by DHL. They want my social security number, exact description of items, and who the manufacturer is. Half the order is just tips and sleeves which are decorative in nature. There are unregulated mods and rda's in package too though. I'm not sure what to do or say.

Ok, this is definitely not good (esp. since I have a package that just shipped from overseas).
 

Time

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For those that said DHL does not care, a package of mine is being held in customs and was being delivered by DHL. They want my social security number, exact description of items, and who the manufacturer is. Half the order is just tips and sleeves which are decorative in nature. There are unregulated mods and rda's in package too though. I'm not sure what to do or say.

None of that is illegal. I don't see a problem other than the delay and extra bullshit.
 

Barbara E.

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The problem is that, in the future, many of these things *will* be illegal and it indicates the our customs department is actively looking for them. Lots of people figure they can just 'order from China' in the future and this could be a concern.
 

Time

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The problem is that, in the future, many of these things *will* be illegal and it indicates the our customs department is actively looking for them. Lots of people figure they can just 'order from China' in the future and this could be a concern.

LOL
 

SteveS45

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Sounds like improperly filled out customs forms which should have been done by the vendor. Who is the vendor and what country is it being shipped from and to?
 

SirRichardRear

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So I'll post this in all 3 threads where it is applicable, but i went ahead and called fed ex. Unfortunately the person I spoke with clearly had no idea what she was talking about and kept changing her story when I tried getting a clarification. 1st she said it was for them doing paperwork, then she said no it's because we paid those fees to the government to get your package released, then she said thats not it either. Long story short, I have to wait for a manager there to call me back to get an explanation. I'll give them a day and if I don't hear back from a manager I'll call them back again so I can get a clarification of the fees.

the 2nd part to this, is (and mind you I know gearbest hasn't used fed ex before) but I guess when you create the shipping label, there is a section for duties and tax where you can bill to the sender, recipient, or 3rd party and it was chosen to be billed to the recipient (which is us) rather then the sender (gearbest) could have just been a clerical issue as I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt. If you look at the shipping label, on the bottom right there is a section that has MFG, value, and some other stuff. one part on the bottom right says "D/T" and next to it on mine has the letter "R" for recipient. that is what shows fed ex where they bill the duties and taxes so at least I learned that from the call.

So what I take from this is, that if filled out correctly, us as consumers shouldn't see these invoices, but it could effect the pricing from Chinese Vendors if they have to pay these 20 dollar fees on every order, or they can try a different carrier?
 

KDodds

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Send them a copy of the invoice. You're not doing anything wrong. At most, they'll make you pay sales tax.
 

Carolyn Z

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Does anyone know if there are more regulations being put into place in December? Some guy told me they (vendors) would not be able to sell wire or cotton after dec 31st. I said no way...really ?
 

KDodds

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Does anyone know if there are more regulations being put into place in December? Some guy told me they (vendors) would not be able to sell wire or cotton after dec 31st. I said no way...really ?
Uh, yeah, that's right, cotton will be removed from all stores shelves every where. Ladies (and I guess some guys) will need to resort to toilet paper to blot their makeup. Levi's will be going out of business because damn near everything they make it 100% cotton. Being an electrician will be illegal and all toasters will be confiscated from housewares departments everywhere. Of all the things you could worry about and spread rumors about, these two are probably the most ridiculous.
 

Huckleberried

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Carolyn Z

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Why the f*ck does he say sh*t like this. He's now on my don't talk to list. Do not BS me when it come to my vaping, even if it's just in fun. I'm on the idiot list. LOL Man, I need to grow up. Just because I don't talk BS doesn't mean other Tom, Dick, and Harrys wont. I hate BS! Just give me facts and I'll be happy. I'm like really embarassed for being so gullable. Just shoot me. LOL
 

JuicyLucy

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Why the f*ck does he say sh*t like this. He's now on my don't talk to list. Do not BS me when it come to my vaping, even if it's just in fun. I'm on the idiot list. LOL Man, I need to grow up. Just because I don't talk BS doesn't mean other Tom, Dick, and Harrys wont. I hate BS! Just give me facts and I'll be happy. I'm like really embarassed for being so gullable. Just shoot me. LOL

Hey, you did the right thing by asking.

Now if you'd have gone around repeating what you heard without verifying, you might deserve sarcasm. But you didn't.

I always like to say the only dumb question is the one you didn't ask.

Mean or sarcastic answers don't help new people become better vapers - so feel free to ask away and don't pay attention to meanies :)
 

SirRichardRear

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Not a day goes by when I do not feel good about stockpiling before 8/8
Uh, yeah, that's right, cotton will be removed from all stores shelves every where. Ladies (and I guess some guys) will need to resort to toilet paper to blot their makeup. Levi's will be going out of business because damn near everything they make it 100% cotton. Being an electrician will be illegal and all toasters will be confiscated from housewares departments everywhere. Of all the things you could worry about and spread rumors about, these two are probably the most ridiculous.
You and me both ;)

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OK so a manager finally called me back and seemed to know what she was talking about. It's a fed ex fee for basically doing paperwork for the FDA, so the money does go into Fed Ex's pockets. So going forward I'd be careful ordering from outside the US getting shipped into the US because if you do, and it's shipped fed ex, you are going to get this fee.
 

r055co

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OK so a manager finally called me back and seemed to know what she was talking about. It's a fed ex fee for basically doing paperwork for the FDA, so the money does go into Fed Ex's pockets. So going forward I'd be careful ordering from outside the US getting shipped into the US because if you do, and it's shipped fed ex, you are going to get this fee.
Paperwork for the FDA?

Yep, confirmation that they are preparing to target overseas shipments. Don't think it'll happen? Try buying tobacco and getting it through.

Like Lucy, not a day goes by after August 8th I'm not thankful that I stockpiled.

Unless something major happens with the lawsuits prepare to get fucked. That is unless you stockpiled.

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SirRichardRear

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Paperwork for the FDA?

Yep, confirmation that they are preparing to target overseas shipments. Don't think it'll happen? Try buying tobacco and getting it through.

Like Lucy, not a day goes by after August 8th I'm not thankful that I stockpiled.

Unless something major happens with the lawsuits prepare to get fucked. That is unless you stockpiled.

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yeah i stockpiled up pretty good. I have more then enough to last me years but still like buying new stuff, Guess I just won't buy from outside the US anymore.
 

r055co

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yeah i stockpiled up pretty good. I have more then enough to last me years but still like buying new stuff, Guess I just won't buy from outside the US anymore.
Yeah I'm well prepared for well beyond my lifetime, but I still like the new stuff coming out.

Fuck them, there's always a way and the Big Pharma puppets that is the FDA will NOT STOP ME. Sure it's going to be more difficult, but it will not stop.

In all the greed of government they are only pushing it to the underground and black market. Thus loosing millions upon millions of tax dollars. Most of us will not go back to Tobacco nor pay the obscene taxes they are piling on.

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KDodds

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I'm not having any problems whatsoever getting stuff from overseas. You guys have to remember that vape products are only a VERY small portion of personal use Chinese imports. One of my daughters orders tons of nail and other beauty products. Toys and electronics are big too. Especially things like chargers, headphones, and cables. FT and GB sell all of these things (and more). There is absolutely no way an item NOT identified as a vaping product can be targetted by FedEx OR the FDA. There is WAY too much coming in for them to stop and open every single package, or even spot check an appreciable amount of packages any more than they are already doing in customs.

Additionally, tax and duty have nothing to do with vapor products. We are required to pay (or the vendor is) duties and taxes on all imported merchandise. This has nothing to do with the FDA.
 

r055co

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I'm not having any problems whatsoever getting stuff from overseas. You guys have to remember that vape products are only a VERY small portion of personal use Chinese imports. One of my daughters orders tons of nail and other beauty products. Toys and electronics are big too. Especially things like chargers, headphones, and cables. FT and GB sell all of these things (and more). There is absolutely no way an item NOT identified as a vaping product can be targetted by FedEx OR the FDA. There is WAY too much coming in for them to stop and open every single package, or even spot check an appreciable amount of packages any more than they are already doing in customs.

Additionally, tax and duty have nothing to do with vapor products. We are required to pay (or the vendor is) duties and taxes on all imported merchandise. This has nothing to do with the FDA.
It's hit and miss, they will/are highlighting vendors who sell Vape products and will be targeting them for inspection.

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KDodds

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It's hit and miss, they will/are highlighting vendors who sell Vape products and will be targeting them for inspection.

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Only, the vendors selling vape products, so far as I'm getting, are not identifying themselves as such on their packaging. So far, everything is coming in person-to-person on the return address.
 

r055co

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Only, the vendors selling vape products, so far as I'm getting, are not identifying themselves as such on their packaging. So far, everything is coming in person-to-person on the return address.
For now, wait and see in two years when the shit hits the fan in full force.


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KDodds

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You think that in two years the FDA is going to take over US Customs and force them to individually examine even one in every ten thousand person to person packages coming in from China? Seriously? Do you remember the battery fiasco? Did you have any batteries seized? I did. And the vendors made good on all of them.
 

r055co

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You think that in two years the FDA is going to take over US Customs and force them to individually examine even one in every ten thousand person to person packages coming in from China? Seriously? Do you remember the battery fiasco? Did you have any batteries seized? I did. And the vendors made good on all of them.
Try buying cigarettes online ;)

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KDodds

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Try buying cigarettes online ;)

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I'm 4 years past that. But I know they're still available, just not domestically. When I quit, it was cheaper to go to NJ and get real Marlboro than to buy them online and have them shipped DHL or FedEx.
 

r055co

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I'm 4 years past that. But I know they're still available, just not domestically. When I quit, it was cheaper to go to NJ and get real Marlboro than to buy them online and have them shipped DHL or FedEx.
Point is that cigarettes shipped are being seized. If you don't think that is what is in store for anything Vape you're going to have a rude awakening.

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KDodds

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Point is that cigarettes shipped are being seized. If you don't think that is what is in store for anything Vape you're going to have a rude awakening.

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Virtually all of these seizures are, as in the recently announced NYS seizures, are large volume with intent to sell seizures. The codger on a fixed income bringing in two cartons a week through Europe is still getting his regular shipments. Might one get seized? I guess. But they haven't, can't, and won't be able to stop the flow of personal use tobacco unless the demand dies. And 99.99% are still getting through just fine.

Again, there is no such thing as a vape store. There's absolutely no way they can prevent the stuff coming in. As I said, there's no return address to target. There's no particular shipper to target, even. So they'd be limited to what? Electronics sniffing dogs? Yeah, good luck with that. Or what? X-Raying every single package that might have originated in China? It's not like cigarettes, there's no tobacco to detect, just metal boxes with empty battery cases and a small chip. Or a glass or metal cylinder or a tiny stainless cylinder with cotton and wire. PLUS, PG, VG, flavorings, cotton, and wire CAN'T be banned domestically. So, as long as I have 3 gallons of 100mg nic within the next two years, I'm set for life. Probably well overstocked since I'm also dropping my nic, some even 0nic, with DIY.
 

r055co

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Virtually all of these seizures are, as in the recently announced NYS seizures, are large volume with intent to sell seizures. The codger on a fixed income bringing in two cartons a week through Europe is still getting his regular shipments. Might one get seized? I guess. But they haven't, can't, and won't be able to stop the flow of personal use tobacco unless the demand dies. And 99.99% are still getting through just fine.

Again, there is no such thing as a vape store. There's absolutely no way they can prevent the stuff coming in. As I said, there's no return address to target. There's no particular shipper to target, even. So they'd be limited to what? Electronics sniffing dogs? Yeah, good luck with that. Or what? X-Raying every single package that might have originated in China? It's not like cigarettes, there's no tobacco to detect, just metal boxes with empty battery cases and a small chip. Or a glass or metal cylinder or a tiny stainless cylinder with cotton and wire. PLUS, PG, VG, flavorings, cotton, and wire CAN'T be banned domestically. So, as long as I have 3 gallons of 100mg nic within the next two years, I'm set for life. Probably well overstocked since I'm also dropping my nic, some even 0nic, with DIY.
Guess it's not going to happen like DHL and FedEx holding up shipment like in this thread?



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KDodds

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You mean the ones that were held up for duty/tax? What does that have to do with the type of product? I've had bonsai pots held up for the same, and it's nothing new.
 

r055co

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OK so a manager finally called me back and seemed to know what she was talking about. It's a fed ex fee for basically doing paperwork for the FDA, so the money does go into Fed Ex's pockets. So going forward I'd be careful ordering from outside the US getting shipped into the US because if you do, and it's shipped fed ex, you are going to get this fee.

You mean the ones that were held up for duty/tax? What does that have to do with the type of product? I've had bonsai pots held up for the same, and it's nothing new.
See Bears post, that's not duty tax...

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KDodds

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See Bears post, that's not duty tax...

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The money that goes to FedEx is a brokerage fee as they act as the Customs Broker. There has been no change in FedEx/DHL Customs brokerage with respect to the FDA since June. HOWEVER, they ARE required to provide the FDA with information about the products being imported IF those products are FDA regulated. This is not vape related. It covers all FDA regulated products, including such innocuous things as prescription pimple cream from Canadian pharmacies or apples from Chile. The problem is, no one knows what is and isn't subject to the regulations yet, so, like vape shops, independent customs brokerages want to stay in business and will not be very likely to risk losing that over soemthing that might be regulated.

The sky is not falling. Not yet, anyway.

Plenty of folks are having no issues at all. To those who are having problems because they load up their cart with hundreds of dollars worth of items to make DHL/FedEx more affordable, I would suggest using the free shipping and smaller, more person-to-person friendly, packages. If you look like an importer... well. And maybe use a little more shopping patience. 2 weeks for an R150 is NOT a long time to wait in the grand sceme of things. Even if it's a month, who cares, it's not like you're ordering stuff you NEED NOW from China. "Must. Have. Now." is never a good attitude for a consumer.

The only issues *I* have had since 8/8 have been with DOMESTIC shipments, shipped through USPS. All of those shipments had "Vape" or "ECig" or something like that in their return addresses. Every last one that was held up.

I'll be interested to see what a certain Florida vendor's return address is since it's been held up in Fla for going on 4 days now whereas other vendors' shipments shipped on the same day are set to arrive today.
 

AndriaD

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I'll be interested to see what a certain Florida vendor's return address is since it's been held up in Fla for going on 4 days now whereas other vendors' shipments shipped on the same day are set to arrive today.

I've had long waits for pretty much everything I've EVER ordered from FL. They must have one of the shittiest USPS's in the entire country.

Andria
 

MC5

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I'm keeping my Chinese orders under $100 in hopes they will stay under the radar. So far so good, same turnaround as pre-8/8.
 

KDodds

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I've had long waits for pretty much everything I've EVER ordered from FL. They must have one of the shittiest USPS's in the entire country.

Andria
Tell me about it, but these orders all went through the same hub. All of the packages that arrived yesterday used inncuous return address names.
 

KDodds

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I'm keeping my Chinese orders under $100 in hopes they will stay under the radar. So far so good, same turnaround as pre-8/8.
Since the free shipping threshhold is so low, there's really no point in letting a cart build up, right? I just pull the trigger at the threshold, always have.
 

bumrocks

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Sorry, I did not come back and state what ended up happening sooner. So, somebody knew somebody and asked the proper questions to the proper people and long story short, "x" amount of random packages are checked at every port every week and just so happened my number came up. My package was released and when I received it at home, it had not even been opened. My fear of being flagged or marked was unfounded as I have received 2 other packages since then with no issue...I did get hit with a customs bill on that one that was held though.
 

bluedodger

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The FDA has made their regulations and the news is grim. Those in power have proven that despite the rapidly growing mass of proof that vaping is a very positive thing, they will stubbornly keep their heads in their nether regions, and their hands in the pockets of those with vested interests that oppose vaping.

As bad as it looks, this is not the time to panic or give up. We still have plenty of time to fight, and with every passing day more research emerges to support us, and our voice grows louder. This is the time to support the industry, and spread the message to convert more smokers. The bigger we are, the harder we are to ignore.

Two years to the day we posted this as a trailer before VU opened...



But no matter what the future brings, there will always be a safe place for vapers to communicate, and share information and ideas. The Vaping Underground Forum was created in no small part to secure the future of vaping, one way or another. The VaporJoes Network has been working hard to ensure that our infrastructures and services are safely out of the reach of USA or FDA regulations. We're here to stay, so that your best source for vaping information will continue to be a thriving hub for anyone who has made their choice to embrace this path to tobacco harm reduction.

So get to the Underground, and bring your still-smoking friends with you. We've got plenty of room for everyone, and we're not going anywhere.
Absolutely, Joe. My worry is that the anti-vaping special interests are effecting public opinion. People, especially over 35, have a negative view of vaping. I know we will win but the forces aganst us are strong and not to be underestimated. We can win people over one at a time if necessary. The facts are on our side.
 

mikeyboy74

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Very interesting article about vaping on the Nov 1 front page of the New York Times. That is an ally with potential to help us. Article easily found online.

Despite the need to win over, I hope to see the legal battle unfold. Might be necessary.

Hopefully, A Billion Lives, another documentary or two, and the road tour bus will also create a more positive environment.

Of the over 35 antis, how many suffered to quit, and don't want to know about a better option that is 95% safer?

I do see more middle aged and senior vapers now, with a wider variety of gear.
 

AndriaD

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Very interesting article about vaping on the Nov 1 front page of the New York Times. That is an ally with potential to help us. Article easily found online.

Despite the need to win over, I hope to see the legal battle unfold. Might be necessary.

Hopefully, A Billion Lives, another documentary or two, and the road tour bus will also create a more positive environment.

Of the over 35 antis, how many suffered to quit, and don't want to know about a better option that is 95% safer?

I do see more middle aged and senior vapers now, with a wider variety of gear.

My mom was glad I finally found a way to quit, but she never did really believe that vaping is relatively harmless; I really think she was jealous, that I was able to quit so easily, when it took her over 10 yrs and much suffering and lots of $$$ spent on the worthless BP cessation nostrums (patch and gum).

However my doc and the nurses at his practice, almost all well over 40, are becoming believers -- first, that ANYTHING can help a hardcore smoker as I was to quit, and STAY QUIT, and second, that vaping is not causing any godawful problems itself.

Andria
 

Huckleberried

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Thanks!
We're doing an event and are trying to find some creative ways around the whole "no free sampling" rule.
Depending on the event, some places are offering a "club" type thing that costs anywhere from a penny up to $1 that allows unlimited sampling. Isn't free, right? Depends on the event...
 
I was told the club membership was discussed in this 499-page FDA monstrosity I'm reading (I'm only on page 27 *uhg*).
We came up with customers paying $1 to taste and they get a $5 (retail) glass drip tip (which also means we don't have to use tip condoms).
We also considered giving customers a $1 off coupon once they paid $1 to join the event. Then again, everyone participating in the event gets 10% any one item we're selling.
 

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