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FDA REGULATIONS: DON'T PANIC!


Huckleberried

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I was told the club membership was discussed in this 499-page FDA monstrosity I'm reading (I'm only on page 27 *uhg*).
We came up with customers paying $1 to taste and they get a $5 (retail) glass drip tip (which also means we don't have to use tip condoms).
We also considered giving customers a $1 off coupon once they paid $1 to join the event. Then again, everyone participating in the event gets 10% any one item we're selling.
FDA over-reaching, at it's finest. :cuss2:
 

5150sick

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Especially when the FDA starts lowering the nicotine in them. Less nic, smoke more, die faster.o_O
But.... BUY twice as many.
The government needs you to keep smoking they need the money.
Now it's so bad that they have figured out a brilliant scheme to take two maybe three times as much of your money.
All under the guise of PROTECTING smokers.
 

MyMagicMist

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I think the tabacco companies are putting pressure on the fda to get rid of vaping im sure they have taken a hit on their wallets
A rough estimate is say about $10,000 annually per smoker. Do that per 100 smokers you get $1,000,000. That bite merely increases as we see fewer smokers. Granted $1,000,000 may seem pocket change, added up though with more smokers it creates a larger scale change.

Think also of some lawyers put out of work for not having to file malpractice suits on doctors. Then, you got doctors losing money as well because the number of smokers and second hand smokers keeps decreasing, folks start staying healthier, less need of doctoring. Ashtray manufactures start going out of business too. A good chunk of government corruption gets halted, no more big tobacco, big pharmaceutical cash cows to feed bribes.

Someone once illustrated the costs of doing laundry at laundromats. It went beyond the mere out of pocket to do laundry. They calculated in the variables of energy, water, wasted heat and so on. A $1.50 load of laundry washed and dried wound up being more akin to $10.00 when they had done all the figuring. Similar logic seems to apply in the case of vaping. That money too gets passed around a lot of greasy palms, everybody has to get a cut.

It is interesting to watch as consumer choice, buying power can be / is being used as a means of voting / bullets. That's what ballot used to imply at one point, a bullet. Takes that to enforce Statism. Well, let me veer back to vaping as I'm sure any discussion of poly ticks is best left to poly tickers. Liking the Ry4 I'm vaping this morning. :) :cloud:
 

MyMagicMist

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I always like to say the only dumb question is the one you didn't ask.
Mean or sarcastic answers don't help new people become better vapers - so feel free to ask away and don't pay attention to meanies :)
Bravo! Have :coffee: or :coffee: :coffee:. Be careful though, I happen to know some Morely what saw Irish Whiskey handy in the route to the :coffee2:. Never know but what he don't make boatswain's mate's :coffee:. "Get yer leg up there mate! Be a jolly day in the neighborhood indeed! Arrr!"
 

Rossum

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A rough estimate is say about $10,000 annually per smoker.
How do you figure the tobacco companies are losing that much? My total cost for 2 PAD premium cigs in a medium tax state was under $5k annually. Most of that went to the goobermint in taxes. I doubt BT got more than $1k of it.
 

AndriaD

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How do you figure the tobacco companies are losing that much? My total cost for 2 PAD premium cigs in a medium tax state was under $5k annually. Most of that went to the goobermint in taxes. I doubt BT got more than $1k of it.
Yep. I was mostly at 1 PAD for the last decade or so before I switched to vaping, and my current "savings" is just a bit over $6600 (pay no mind to the figure currently shown in my banner; I have to keep varying the pack $ amount so the code is different enough that VU will actually show something different rather than a cached banner -- they've gone completely NUTS with the caching here in recent months). So I was spending roughly $2200/yr for premium cigarettes @ 1PAD.

Andria
 

MyMagicMist

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How do you figure the tobacco companies are losing that much? My total cost for 2 PAD premium cigs in a medium tax state was under $5k annually. Most of that went to the goobermint in taxes. I doubt BT got more than $1k of it.
Well, I was figuring based on current for Marlboro reds. Cartons round here are sold at $50 -$60, most buying two cartons a week. Two weeks is $120, times another two for an average 4 wk month $240. $240 x 12 months $2,880 year. Then you figure in for lighters, matches, ashtrays and I know those are variable and extra costs but they do figure in. I may have overshot, too. Still if one is spending $2,000 to $4,000 a year for cigarettes it's not a small number. It still adds up long haul, especially considering they need to advertise, create promos to keep users and so on.

As I say, might have overshot a bit, indeed I do see I did some. Although I'm not quite sure by how much as there's other factors involved. The government being one. I ponder how many BT execs keep a revolving door in government. It could be a means to use tax money to fund the settlements to states. Not saying that is the case, not saying it isn't either. I am only wondering a bit aloud. We know that Monsanto, GM have similar strategies, execs rotating in and out of government. If people only saw organized anarchy (rather) for what it is.
 

Rossum

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Still if one is spending $2,000 to $4,000 a year for cigarettes it's not a small number. It still adds up long haul, especially considering they need to advertise, create promos to keep users and so on.
Keep in mind that BG gets way more of whatever spend on cigs than BT does.
 

Lostaboveall

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I find it interesting reading what other countries have to endure.

I find it absolutely ludicrous that over here we can't buy juice with nicotine in it and have to buy it overseas.

And the fact that in the area I live in two respiratory physcians recommend vaping to their patients who struggle to give up smoking but yeah, nah you can't buy that juice here.
 

GreyArea

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RE: the tax revenue loss - have there been any studies comparing the reduction in tax revenue from people switching from smoking to vaping versus the public expenditure reduction that should result when Medicare/Medicaid and other tax-subsidized insurance programs are shelling out considerably less money on treatments for cancer, emphysema, etc.? Not to mention increases in payroll tax and workplace productivity from a decrease in sick days (since smokers use far more sick days than non-smokers)?

It can't hurt that it seems like public perception is starting to shift towards at least an acceptance of vaping. I've found a lot of non-smokers to be intrigued by it - "Hey, that smells nice, what is it?" instead of the "Oh, you're a filthy smoker" that I'd gotten used to over the years.

Now if we can just get morons to stop doing stupid shit with gear... If I have to read one more news story about some dipshit who singed a testicle by putting an unsleeved high-capacity battery in the same pocket as his car keys and three weeks worth of change, I'm gonna start hanging around the vape shops and handing out battery safety flyers.
 

Pastorfuzz

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The FDA has made their regulations and the news is grim. Those in power have proven that despite the rapidly growing mass of proof that vaping is a very positive thing, they will stubbornly keep their heads in their nether regions, and their hands in the pockets of those with vested interests that oppose vaping.

As bad as it looks, this is not the time to panic or give up. We still have plenty of time to fight, and with every passing day more research emerges to support us, and our voice grows louder. This is the time to support the industry, and spread the message to convert more smokers. The bigger we are, the harder we are to ignore.

Two years to the day we posted this as a trailer before VU opened...



But no matter what the future brings, there will always be a safe place for vapers to communicate, and share information and ideas. The Vaping Underground Forum was created in no small part to secure the future of vaping, one way or another. The VaporJoes Network has been working hard to ensure that our infrastructures and services are safely out of the reach of USA or FDA regulations. We're here to stay, so that your best source for vaping information will continue to be a thriving hub for anyone who has made their choice to embrace this path to tobacco harm reduction.

So get to the Underground, and bring your still-smoking friends with you. We've got plenty of room for everyone, and we're not going anywhere.
 

Pastorfuzz

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Hello, Don't know where to post this info, but I just saw Dr. Farsalino has a new survey about the proposed flavor ban.
I saw the info today and Zophie Vapes was just on talking about it.
It took me about 15 minutes to complete it.
I looked up Dr Farsalino survey on google to find it.
I know you probably know about this already but in case you don't.............
 

Ms. Trixy

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I've been meaning to do that survey since last week. " I'll be back."
 

HeadInClouds

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This was posted by 5151 before with links provided
There's a new Dr Farsalinos flavor survey? I found an undated survey online that could be from his 2013 research & published study, but I don't see a new one. Can anyone point me to it?
 

AndriaD

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There were a couple problems with that survey -- the only option about how often I change flavors that even came close to my actuality was "change monthly" -- though in fact I never change the flavor, only gradually reduce the flavoring; I've vaped the same thing since Dec 2014. Then, there was a series of questions regarding the availability of flavored ejuice, which means diddly to me since I make my own. Finally, there was no "comments" section, in which I might register these differences. Crap like that bugs me, it's like my reality doesn't count.

Andria
 

Ms. Trixy

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I just posted a review about the new CigStar Greek Temple Mod.

After I changed into my Pjs, I felt as though I needed to speak up about the flavor issue. Please, at least hear my 4 minute plea. I truly appreciate if you would.

Trixy
Have the Gods Spoken?

 

Letitia9

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Since the flavor ban would only affect flavors in commercial juice it makes perfect sense the survey is strictly about them. I found it to be a pretty well thought out survey that stayed on point.
 

AndriaD

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And while the FDA can ban "flavored ejuice" at its discretion, apparently, but I'd like to see how they plan to ban all flavors -- what, are they going into the soylent green business? The flavors we use are FOOD FLAVORS -- and I really doubt the food industry is going to look the other way if the FDfuckingA tries to ban those flavors.

Andria
 

Letitia9

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Or the food industry does what the battery industry did and put a not to used for warning on the labels.
 

HeadInClouds

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Carmmond

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Carambrda

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And while the FDA can ban "flavored ejuice" at its discretion, apparently, but I'd like to see how they plan to ban all flavors -- what, are they going into the soylent green business? The flavors we use are FOOD FLAVORS -- and I really doubt the food industry is going to look the other way if the FDfuckingA tries to ban those flavors.

Andria
In the movie titled Equilibrium (2002) they actually even tried to ban all human emotions. :D
 

AndriaD

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In the movie titled Equilibrium (2002) they actually even tried to ban all human emotions. :D
Is that the one with Bale, where they try to catch law-breakers before they ever break the law>

Andria
 

BronzyIsland

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I think the tabacco companies are putting pressure on the fda to get rid of vaping im sure they have taken a hit on their wallets
well back in 2009 when they banned flavored cigs it turned out the one who lobbied the FDA into making that ban into law was the Altria company who owns philip morris.
i'll assume the reason behind it was to remove the budding in popularity clove cigs from overseas and the chinese and european companies making peach, vanilla, cherry etc flavored cigs.
altria removed the foreign competition in 2009 with their lap dog the FDA....and i suspect they are doing it again. but it can also just be govt wanting folks going back to smoking for the tax rev.
meh.
sickening.
 

BronzyIsland

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im just glad i stocked up on flavor concentrates n nicotine for a lifetime years ago. though i wouldnt wnt all the vap companies going belly up for bullshit reasons either. folks have a right to be business owners.
 

fozzy71

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i stocked up on flavor concentrates n nicotine for a lifetime years ago.
orly? concentrates last 3 - 4 years at best if refrigerated.

yeah, i know they ain't coming after flavor concentrates... yet
 

Ms. Trixy

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I took the survey and went to CASAA to tell my full story for them to submit to the FDA. I ended my story by telling the FDA to stop using children as their scapegoat.

Oddly enough, I just watched about 6 vape vs. cigarette videos. Any video/show that was interviewing an expert, like the AVA, would not bring up Big Tobacco. The Present of the AVA made it clear 3 times that it all had to do with BT but the host easily ignored any reference to BT. I also watched clinical trials of combustibles vs. vape. It was a no brainer. And disgusting.

@fozzy71 I bought my flavorings in July/Aug of 2016. Have been refrigerated since. I took the smaller bottles out a few days ago so I could create a spreadsheet of what I have and back in the fridge they'll go. I plan on ordering them all over again, plus many other flavors before the next bomb hits. I agree about them not being able to control food flavorings. But watch. They'll do something to make sure that the flavors are being sold to the proper people; require proper documentation, etc. I heard twice that those making juice for their own use were not under scrutiny since the ejuice wouldn't be available to children. Uh, what about those stupid "of age" idiots that will DIY and sell to kids. There's always a way - like cigarettes, drugs, alcohol and even firearms, there's always a way for children/pre-teens to obtain it.
 

Fozzy

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A few weeks back I read the FDA had opened a comment section regarding the potential ban on flavors. It sounds like there is at least some understanding that flavored e-juice may be helping smokers get and stay off the stinkys.

How many million of vapors are in the US?

Because as of just a moment ago there were only 7108 comments submitted.

They need data.

Here is the link: https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...655/regulation-of-flavors-in-tobacco-products
 

gopher_byrd

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I commented today, have you?

Your Comment Tracking Number: 1k2-93e0-6ju7
 

Carmmond

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I commented today, have you?

Your Comment Tracking Number: 1k2-93e0-6ju7
1k2-93e4-7esn

"
I smoked for over 35 years and could not kick the habit with Chantix, the patch, gum or cold turkey and I tried all of them multiple times! With vaping and the choice of flavors I have quit for the last 14 months and will not go back. Do not take this away from us... I have had my Doctor tell me that I'm doing great and my lungs sound very healthy for the first time in years. I didn't have to go in for antibiotics to clear up a cold in the spring or fall for the first time in 15 years.



My sister, brother-n-law, and 5 co-workers have also quit in the last 2 years with vaping and all of them have said it's because of the choice of flavors. Many of them had tried other methods also and had failed but have succeeded with vaping because they found the right nicotine strength and a flavor they liked.



As for the flavor/kids argument I don't buy it or agree with it. After 18 years old the “kids” are adults and can make their own decisions. Anyone buying flavored juice before 18 should be regulated by the State or Fed in that order."
 
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