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My new Griffin RTA (vs Crius)
- Thread starter Powerman
- Start date
I have some higher gauge wires coming my way and will definitely give the 26g or 28g core wires a shot. My juices are mostly high or max VG. And I agree there is nothing wrong with a simple coil setup, but I just want to experiment it for myself. That's why I wanna make sure the builds are right so that I can make that call for myself. Thanks heaps and appreciate the suggestion!Here's the issues...
Ur wires of choice bro
Coils too thick
Ramp time too long
Too hot!!!
Consider higher gauges wires like
2x26k/40g outer
2x28k/40g outer
Stick to whatever works for you bro,
If you VAPE high pg juices there's no need for FUSed claps!! Stick with regular macro,micro,twisted ,parallel it's all good man,there's no need to build CLAPTONS if ur juice is already flavorful!
There only reason why the claps etcccc were introduce because it claimed to expose the hidden flavor in a juice..SUBJECTIVE! But again if ur juice is already
Flavorful don't complicate it. Just saying! Good luck
Vape On
MAX VG
then you better hurry up with fused claps, those coils chucks clouds and flavor
... Goodluck I hope you find ur sweet spot soon... 
Vape On
I think that's my issue raymo2u. I am probably having a build that doesn't suit my vaping style. And thanks for the swivel link below. I will give it a go. Sigh.....there are so many things to try, but so little time.....lol
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A lot of people think "higher wattage = hotter burning vape" as if it's some isolated thing. It isn't.
The wattage (power) is what runs through the coil to cause it to heat up. If you're adding more metal to the coil doesn't it make sense that it'd take more power to heat it to the same temperature? Claptoning a coil does a few things but one thing is it acts as a heat sink, it's insulating the coil and acting as a sort of transfer conduit for the heat. So you need to apply more power to heat that internal wire a bit more so it can transfer the heat at a similar rate to what it would without that wire there. Thicker the wrap the slower that transfer is and then you have ramp up issues and a less enjoyable vape. That's why most here prefer 36g or higher. There are a lot of details on why and how things work, but basically expect to turn up the power a little when you go from raw wire to claptons, it doesn't have to be a ton, I'm vaping 85w on my 40g wrapped claptons, and it's only just getting into the "warm" category, as in I wouldn't call it warm, but it's warmer than the air I'm breathing in between puffs.
Likewise lower resistance requires higher wattage,
Yes, Vaping is physics! and no, wattage is not an isolated variable, your preferred vape will require different wattage depending on your coil. Don't limit yourself, experiment some and find your sweet spot.
For those that didnt understand Jerus's chatter 
Another way to describe it....
Imagine filling up a Balloon with water is a good analogy. The Thicker and Bigger a Balloon is the more Water and Pressure it will need to fill and it wont empty as fast. A Thinner Smaller Balloon wont need as much water or pressure to fill and it will empty much faster then the Bigger Balloon.
Another way to describe it....Imagine filling up a Balloon with water is a good analogy. The Thicker and Bigger a Balloon is the more Water and Pressure it will need to fill and it wont empty as fast. A Thinner Smaller Balloon wont need as much water or pressure to fill and it will empty much faster then the Bigger Balloon.
For me it's simple with whatever build I'm vaping..I start low, bump up, try it, bump up and continue till I find my perfect hit with that particular build..When I go too high I know it and same going too low..hell I'm the one vaping it, right? I like keeping it simple, lol, just sayinA lot of people think "higher wattage = hotter burning vape" as if it's some isolated thing. It isn't.
The wattage (power) is what runs through the coil to cause it to heat up. If you're adding more metal to the coil doesn't it make sense that it'd take more power to heat it to the same temperature? Claptoning a coil does a few things but one thing is it acts as a heat sink, it's insulating the coil and acting as a sort of transfer conduit for the heat. So you need to apply more power to heat that internal wire a bit more so it can transfer the heat at a similar rate to what it would without that wire there. Thicker the wrap the slower that transfer is and then you have ramp up issues and a less enjoyable vape. That's why most here prefer 36g or higher. There are a lot of details on why and how things work, but basically expect to turn up the power a little when you go from raw wire to claptons, it doesn't have to be a ton, I'm vaping 85w on my 40g wrapped claptons, and it's only just getting into the "warm" category, as in I wouldn't call it warm, but it's warmer than the air I'm breathing in between puffs.
Likewise lower resistance requires higher wattage,, that's your joule heating formula, the big R there is your resistance(Ω). The I is current(w), and t time. Not to get too much into that, but point being the heat is going to increase with higher resistance, current and time. So if you lower your resistance you need to increase your current to maintain the same heat.
Yes, Vaping is physics! and no, wattage is not an isolated variable, your preferred vape will require different wattage depending on your coil. Don't limit yourself, experiment some and find your sweet spot.
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, I prefer the term Nerd, but yes I like myself some physics and math... and I want that Starfleet badge Chef!And yeah that about sums it up from those two. Start low keep bumping it up till you're satisfied, then try a few more watts to see if you like it better and keep fine tuning till you dial it in.
Some like to think "This should be right" and start from there not thinking of wire mass and they over shoot or undershoot wildly.For me it's simple with whatever build I'm vaping..I start low, bump up, try it, bump up and continue till I find my perfect hit with that particular build..When I go too high I know it and same going too low..hell I'm the one vaping it, right? I like keeping it simple, lol, just sayin
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That could be but I don't do it like that..I mean there is a starting point, bump up, try it, bump up..and I go even up past my sweet spot to see if its better.. I know when its too hot, and bump back down to my sweet spot if needed..usually below 75w, but I'm liking 80-85w with these Clapton's.. Can't chain them as its too hot on the third hit, but the first two are pretty good...
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I go with 4.1V and step it up from there...
My rule of thumb is just to note what the changes are compared to my previous coil. Did I lower resistance, start where I was and go up. Did I make a thicker wire, same thing. Now if I did the opposite, drop it 10-20w and go up from there. No need to know the math if you just understand the basic concept, more metal more power, lower resistance, more power, and the inverse being true.
A lot of people think "higher wattage = hotter burning vape" as if it's some isolated thing. It isn't.
The wattage (power) is what runs through the coil to cause it to heat up. If you're adding more metal to the coil doesn't it make sense that it'd take more power to heat it to the same temperature? Claptoning a coil does a few things but one thing is it acts as a heat sink, it's insulating the coil and acting as a sort of transfer conduit for the heat. So you need to apply more power to heat that internal wire a bit more so it can transfer the heat at a similar rate to what it would without that wire there. Thicker the wrap the slower that transfer is and then you have ramp up issues and a less enjoyable vape. That's why most here prefer 36g or higher. There are a lot of details on why and how things work, but basically expect to turn up the power a little when you go from raw wire to claptons, it doesn't have to be a ton, I'm vaping 85w on my 40g wrapped claptons, and it's only just getting into the "warm" category, as in I wouldn't call it warm, but it's warmer than the air I'm breathing in between puffs.
Likewise lower resistance requires higher wattage,, that's your joule heating formula, the big R there is your resistance(Ω). The I is current(w), and t time. Not to get too much into that, but point being the heat is going to increase with higher resistance, current and time. So if you lower your resistance you need to increase your current to maintain the same heat.
An insulator is not a conductor. And wire of the same material does not do either. It has the same heat transfer coefficient. Mass is mass. In a circuit, heat is a bad thing. In a heating circuit, heat is the point. Larger the wire, lower the resistance, more current for the same heat output. Lower ohms, more amps, higher watts, for same heat output.
It takes very little current to get a vape wire to 400-500F. After that, all the heat goes to vapor production. That is the point of lower ohm vaping. Lower ohms means bigger wires, which means more surface are, which means more vapor production.
E-liquid, depending on it's make up, does have a defined boiling point. VG is higher than PG by about 100F. So high VG requires hotter temp to boil and produce vapor. Once the juice is up to temp, it does not increase in temp, it changes state to gas. Watts are energy over time. Higher watts means you are putting out more over time. So bigger wire, more surface, lower ohms, higher watts, more vapor in the same time segment
I don't do claptons. Have not found the need yet. However, the other point is claptons are not electrically insulated. Current flows through all of it. So the outer wrap does have current flow. Smaller wire and much longer means higher resistance. Current will go through big wire, but as it heat, resistance rises and more will go to the outer. If the coils are touching, current can actually just do a straight line across it and make a short circuit. Sure the rest is energized, but path of least resistance and all...
My only point is that you can't think of the wrap as an isolated thing. It conducts heat at the same coefficient, but it is thinner and does it faster. Also, it isn't electrically isolated, so you have no real idea of where current is flowing and what is heating and how fast. Bottom line is, claptons are bigger wires plain and simple. The fact there is a small wire (or several wrapped with a smaller wire) means much more surface area and much more ability to hold juice like a wick. So larger amount of vapor once you get it to temp. And all that does not even include added air flow.
JERUS, thanks for highlighting the science behind which I understood. In my case, I normally wouldn't have to go beyond 65w for the simpler coil builds. The said fused Clapton I made, however, has more metal (as you'd explained it) and I found that by gradually stepping up the wattage, the flavours increase. But before I could reach my sweet spot and at about 80w for that setup, it became almost too 'hot'. The temperature is probably just 'warm' for some of you, but it makes me cough involuntarily after just one deep direct lung draw. Not sure why though but my body just doesn't like it. Hope I can find the balance of a fused Clapton between sucking up more juice without being too warm for my liking...A lot of people think "higher wattage = hotter burning vape" as if it's some isolated thing. It isn't.
The wattage (power) is what runs through the coil to cause it to heat up. If you're adding more metal to the coil doesn't it make sense that it'd take more power to heat it to the same temperature? Claptoning a coil does a few things but one thing is it acts as a heat sink, it's insulating the coil and acting as a sort of transfer conduit for the heat. So you need to apply more power to heat that internal wire a bit more so it can transfer the heat at a similar rate to what it would without that wire there. Thicker the wrap the slower that transfer is and then you have ramp up issues and a less enjoyable vape. That's why most here prefer 36g or higher. There are a lot of details on why and how things work, but basically expect to turn up the power a little when you go from raw wire to claptons, it doesn't have to be a ton, I'm vaping 85w on my 40g wrapped claptons, and it's only just getting into the "warm" category, as in I wouldn't call it warm, but it's warmer than the air I'm breathing in between puffs.
Likewise lower resistance requires higher wattage,, that's your joule heating formula, the big R there is your resistance(Ω). The I is current(w), and t time. Not to get too much into that, but point being the heat is going to increase with higher resistance, current and time. So if you lower your resistance you need to increase your current to maintain the same heat.
Yes, Vaping is physics! and no, wattage is not an isolated variable, your preferred vape will require different wattage depending on your coil. Don't limit yourself, experiment some and find your sweet spot.
We were talking about changing out coils and gunked coils a few pages back...
I've never. Ever. Ever. Let coils get this gunked up. But this was in my new Griffin and since I don't see the coils when I drop --- I don't see them!!! Flavor started to diminish figured I'd change em...
Matt
I've never. Ever. Ever. Let coils get this gunked up. But this was in my new Griffin and since I don't see the coils when I drop --- I don't see them!!! Flavor started to diminish figured I'd change em...
Matt
To insulate is different than being an Insulator. To insulate is to block off the heat dissipation, an insulator is in reference to the electrical flow. It does a shitty job of insulating but it does slow that heat transfer down and spread it out. Could it be phrased better, sure, but I was just trying to pass on basic concepts. Either way I was referencing the heat dissipation type of insulation not the electrical current type.
You bring up a great point with the airflow though, but anyways my point was not to write an paper on the physics behind vaping but just give some reason for why wattage isn't a set point with some of the basic math behind it.
All good, find YOUR sweet spot, it's not something that's objective. I just see it said a lot that "I only vape X wattage" which just seems silly to me considering it's only one factor in many. Powerman brings up a good point with airflow, you'll notice with dual coils you get a much warmer vape than with a single coil of similar resistance/wattage/whatever, it's because you have more surface area meaning more vapor meaning less air inside the system being mixed in to cool it down. Lots of different things go into making the whole experience, no one thing is isolated. Again, not trying to push you to use higher wattages as much as just make sure you don't limit yourself because of limitations you had with other coils, new coil, new values to dial in.
I hear you mate. Makes absolute sense. Point in case I'd never really like an airy vape (using Aspire Triton 2 before) but with the Griffin and the dual coils setup I had to experiment with more air flow. So the same experimenting requires with wattage and other variables. That's really what makes vaping interesting for me as well.
VapeRN
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There's just so much you can do with this tank. I've had builds of all sizes and wire mass in it and each new build gives me a different but good experience for the most part. I'm just so happy with the flavor, performance, and ease of use hence, I own two...for now.
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It's a discussion, not a debate. But insulate is a word with a definition and several applications. My point with thermal is simply that it is not an insulating component. It's metal. It conducts heat transfer rather well. If it is the same material, then the wrap transfers heat equal to the core. All we are talking about is added mass. You don't need more watts because it's insulating, you need more watts because added mass, surface area, and decreased resistance.
But I certainly agree. Regardless of what's behind it, simply say "X" watts means nothing.
After reading about the Griffin here, my son and I each ordered one. They came yesterday, and we are really liking them A LOT. Thanks for all of the good information here!
raymo2u - We use the swivel method you show above. Works pretty good for us, but we are just learning. We are getting better, but it takes us quite some time to make Clapton wire. We spent over an hour making a set of Alien Claptons a few weeks ago. I couldn't believe my son wanted to unroll the Clapton wire we had just made. But they actually came out really nice.
I saw a guy's video where he used clothespins and magnets, that was pretty cool. We haven't tried this yet, but it looks so much easier in the video.
raymo2u - We use the swivel method you show above. Works pretty good for us, but we are just learning. We are getting better, but it takes us quite some time to make Clapton wire. We spent over an hour making a set of Alien Claptons a few weeks ago. I couldn't believe my son wanted to unroll the Clapton wire we had just made.
But they actually came out really nice.I saw a guy's video where he used clothespins and magnets, that was pretty cool. We haven't tried this yet, but it looks so much easier in the video.
has anyone come up with a favorite build on this yet? anything stand out for you? i have tried a different setup every time so far. havnt had any 'bad' ones, but i feel like i have yet to find one that speaks to me either. would love to hear the results of all of your collective research.
CrazyChef
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For those who were hesitant or interested in the Diablo RTA and wanted to see more of it before going further I finally got some time to do it. In it is 4 x .5KA1R/36N80 Staples (5 Wrap/3mm ID@ .25 Ohms).
Airflow, its not really adjustable-you can raise and lower the base plate to give more airflow but the change is negligible. I find it to be at the perfect amount of "wide open", much like the Twisted Messes RDA Wide open.
The Deck, it is slightly and I mean SLIGHTLY smaller then the Griffins deck. It isnt as tall as the Griffins so you need to build lower and closer to the Airflow. This is a good thing as building closer to the airflow will help adjust for your perfect draw as it can tighten up the airflow and make the draw warmer the closer you pull the coils down. The postholes are 2.3mm (By my Calipers) and the Screws SUCK (Buy some good ones!), I bought some Flathead Set Screws and trhey work very well. Everything is machine very well and it was clean when it arrived. The juice ports are nice and big, and wicking it is easy. Follow GrimmGreens method on how to wick the Goblin Mini but cut the cotton so it barely goes into the ports for lower resistance builds. It wicks just as well as the Griffin and I find that to be superb, not many other RTA's can say they wick this well.
The RTA is Cheap, $9-$13 for the clone and its a TRUE 1:1! This one pictured is the clone that Arrived yesterday and I will have the 2.5ml Mini tomorrow. The Topfill is easy, better then the Griffin actually as the Fins give you something to grab on while you untwist the cap. The fill holes arent as long but they work nicely. The drip tip has fins at the top and if you do not like it the tip can be pulled apart and the top piece flipped so the fins will be at the base of the tip instead for comfort, this I find to be very thoughtful of the manufacturer. All in all I recommend this tank to someone that enjoys the Griffin and wants more capacity and doesnt mind having a set airflow they can only adjust with build height...for $9 you really cant pass one up!
Airflow, its not really adjustable-you can raise and lower the base plate to give more airflow but the change is negligible. I find it to be at the perfect amount of "wide open", much like the Twisted Messes RDA Wide open.
The Deck, it is slightly and I mean SLIGHTLY smaller then the Griffins deck. It isnt as tall as the Griffins so you need to build lower and closer to the Airflow. This is a good thing as building closer to the airflow will help adjust for your perfect draw as it can tighten up the airflow and make the draw warmer the closer you pull the coils down. The postholes are 2.3mm (By my Calipers) and the Screws SUCK (Buy some good ones!), I bought some Flathead Set Screws and trhey work very well. Everything is machine very well and it was clean when it arrived. The juice ports are nice and big, and wicking it is easy. Follow GrimmGreens method on how to wick the Goblin Mini but cut the cotton so it barely goes into the ports for lower resistance builds. It wicks just as well as the Griffin and I find that to be superb, not many other RTA's can say they wick this well.
The RTA is Cheap, $9-$13 for the clone and its a TRUE 1:1! This one pictured is the clone that Arrived yesterday and I will have the 2.5ml Mini tomorrow. The Topfill is easy, better then the Griffin actually as the Fins give you something to grab on while you untwist the cap. The fill holes arent as long but they work nicely. The drip tip has fins at the top and if you do not like it the tip can be pulled apart and the top piece flipped so the fins will be at the base of the tip instead for comfort, this I find to be very thoughtful of the manufacturer. All in all I recommend this tank to someone that enjoys the Griffin and wants more capacity and doesnt mind having a set airflow they can only adjust with build height...for $9 you really cant pass one up!
CrazyChef
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I gotta tell ya, as much as I'm enjoying the Griffin, it still can't replace certain RDAs like I thought it would. It just doesn't have the chamber space to do it. I put a 2x30K/42K, 10/11 wrap dual fused Clapton build in my Kennedy 1:1 clone because the Noisy Cricket looked lonely...
This little 0.75Ω build KICKS ASS in the Kennedy! I have a 3x26K/36N dual alien build in the Griffin, so it's not a perfect comparison, but I was truly surprised at the difference.
This little 0.75Ω build KICKS ASS in the Kennedy! I have a 3x26K/36N dual alien build in the Griffin, so it's not a perfect comparison, but I was truly surprised at the difference.
so here is what i came up with for my next trial. geekvape clapton wire (26ga ni80/32ga ka1) six wrap on 4mm. i let the wire spring/expand a bit so its closer to 4.5mm. mounted vertical for my first time, and wicked with five pieces of scottish roll ends i had cut off other coils. seems to work great so far. i have put it through a series of hits at 150w and it showed no signs of drying out. i vape closer to half that so i think it will be fine. flavor is as expected so far, but nothing that made me think 'this is the build' yet...ill give it time and try more flavors in it...
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Diablo 5ml vs 2.5ml Comparison....
Besides the Obvious Size and Capacity differences the 2.5ml has some other differences worth noting. It DOES have Adjustable Airflow, The Postholes and juice ports are smaller and the drip tip doesnt seem to be able to flip like the 5ml drip tip can.
The Adjustable airflow works well but adjusting it on a box can be difficult if it doesnt meet the edge.
Besides the Obvious Size and Capacity differences the 2.5ml has some other differences worth noting. It DOES have Adjustable Airflow, The Postholes and juice ports are smaller and the drip tip doesnt seem to be able to flip like the 5ml drip tip can.
The Adjustable airflow works well but adjusting it on a box can be difficult if it doesnt meet the edge.
Its everywhere as the clone...The 2.5ml is the one thats hard to find...Just look at the Drip Tip and thats the one your looking for....
The 2.5ml Diablo has rounded top on the Drip Tip the 5ml are squared fins on top. You can get either one off FastTech or Ebay and other vape stores..
I'm having the exact opposite results ur stating man, not callin u a liar, just frustrated I can't find it, ALL I can find are the 2.5ml, at both places you mentioned. Maybe you can supply a link? BTW, ur opinion of the 5ml Diablo vs the Griffin?....which I have and love!
3Fvape LINK
FT Link
Ebay US Seller LINK
AngelCigs, Ebay, and FT have the 2.5ml and are the only ones I see with it when searching google.
If you go up above my 2.5ml Diablo Post I posted the 5ml Version and I wrote a small comparison to the Griffin and notes on whats better and whats lacking when compared.
Keynotes of 5ml vs Griffin:
Diablo is shorter in demeanor.
No Adjustable Airflow but is similar to the Griffin 4/5th's the way open.
Its top fill is similar but smaller fill holes, the cap is easier to untwist as it has fins to grab on to.
Deck/Chamber is slightly smaller and shorter then Griffins.
Uses Goblin Mini Wicking vs Crius Wicking.
Comes in 3 Colors, Griffin comes in 2.
$9-$13 compared to $25-$38 that the Griffin Costs.
Drip tip is cool
I would say the Griffin has more intense flavor, but this depends all on your building style.
If you are someone that enjoys the Griffin and wants more capacity and doesnt mind having a set airflow they can only adjust with build height...for $9-$13, you really cant pass one up!
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I posted links above...They are the Words Written in Red Lettering.
Ive heard a 25mm is in the works but only time can tell. Why do you think its a PIA the ass to refill? If you have wicked it right you shouldnt need to close anything and just unscrew the top and fill. If you fill past the glass or fill too fast you may have troubles.
Those are the 5ml versions unless you clicked out of them to somewhere else...The " Words Written in Red Lettering" took me to the Diablo yes, but all 2.5, unless I'm dense and missing something
EDIT: the 3Fvape link shows the 5ml but in the Description says its the 2.5ml...Im not sure which it is when you buy it...The other 2 links are for the 5ml version
no offense dude, I may be an ol fart but I'm not new to computers/links, etc., believe me, I wish you were right! I know ur respected here, by myself included.....But none of those are for the 5ml version, anyone care to back me up? lol
You're right they all say 2.5ml, but just look at the pictures,
https://www.fasttech.com/products/3028/10019705/4229700-diablo-styled-rta-rebuildable-tank-atomizer
That's the 2.5ml version. You can see the chimney is almost non existent. The versions he linked though have clearly visible chimneys.
Mislabeling on the part of corner cutting companies
, though looking at it and the other specs I doubt it's double the capacity but /shrug it's bigger for sure.
You are right again, they all say 2.5ml in the description but Ive ordered from the FastTech and the Ebay links I posted and they were the 5ml on arrival, they may have just copied the stats and description from the 2.5ml. I didnt even see the 2.5ml in the descriptions, I ordered for what the pictures show as thats what usually comes.
5ml vs 2.5ml Side By Side:
I dont ask anyone to take what I say word for word and as gods gift, take everything I say with a grain of salt...I am human also. I take care of 6 Kids daily, work full time at home for GE and make coils for other members with the free time I have...I try to do my best with all the reviews/comparisons and more....If I had more time I probably wouldnt fuck up as much but it is what it is...
5ml vs 2.5ml Side By Side:
I dont ask anyone to take what I say word for word and as gods gift, take everything I say with a grain of salt...I am human also. I take care of 6 Kids daily, work full time at home for GE and make coils for other members with the free time I have...I try to do my best with all the reviews/comparisons and more....If I had more time I probably wouldnt fuck up as much but it is what it is...
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Cool pics Ray,
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Naw its fine man, its just your the 2nd or 3rd person to comment and say something similar (people look up to me here), Im just like everyone else, I just get away with buying more vape gear and I really only care to post things that impress me. I dont see a reason to post garbage and Im guessing thats why people clue in and grab things I gush about. I do try and give reasons and compare on why things are better then others for a damn good reason, I see ALOT of people who only bought one tank and tell the world to buy it since they are stuck with it and think its the greatest for that reason alone. If I dont like it you will hear that or you wont because I wont even bother to post anything about it.
Enough of that...
You shouldnt have an issue getting the 5ml from the Ebay link as thats the last place I bought my clone...You could always buy the Authentic like I did to begin with if you dont mind tossing $70 at it. Ill try and find a linkl for a 5ml with the description also saying its a 5ml for you though.
Make sure its the 5ml in the picture when ordering itnah, tks but I think Im pullin the trigger on a blue version on 3F for 12 bucks, what have I got to lose right?
ok ray, just ordered, it's on ur head now! Lol....yeah, it sure looked like the 5ml version, longer chimney, right style drip tip BUT still said 2.5ml......we'll see. The clone decent compared to the original? How's 3F's shipping times,1st time using them