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Is there a God?

raymo2u

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Also, what about rapists, thieves, murderers, people who do wrong and get away with it. People who didnt get the chair or didnt get life in prison, if there is no god than did they just get with all of that? Even if you believe in karma, there would be an inbalance, is there no divine justice?

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There used to be, for crimes of that nature there once was a man that did justice without the troubles of being in danger of abusing his power, usually they would not have interest in the case but had to follow through, his name was the Hangman.
 

Azriel Mysterious

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Actually the word Christian literally means (Like unto Christ)
I hate the name my parents gave me. I found a meme that summed it up. Image1462028801.661102.jpg

'Tis why I have gone by Kitty since I was 12. Even through high school and college and into my adult life I have gone by Kitty. I only use my given name when I HAVE to (like for official purposes.) Once I have some disposable cash I plan to legally change it.
 

Azriel Mysterious

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Not sure why.
If you don't believe in a god it to begin with.It just kind of makes sense you wouldn't seek to learn much if anything about religion.
I beg to differ. I've had an interest in studying the World's religions since I was a child. I never "believed" but I still wanted to know. Kind of a study of different cultures, since religion impacts culture and vice verse.
 

Azriel Mysterious

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Minor correction (It was closer to 3 centuries...Yes you read that right Three Hundred Years After)
It was the middle of the night lol pardon my error, but yes, it was long after Jesus supposedly lived and died that the gospels were written.
 

Azriel Mysterious

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Also, what about rapists, thieves, murderers, people who do wrong and get away with it. People who didnt get the chair or didnt get life in prison, if there is no god than did they just get with all of that? Even if you believe in karma, there would be an inbalance, is there no divine justice?

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I get the need to feel like evil is properly punished. I do. It appeals to our sense of justice.

But if Christians are correct, any of those evils you mentioned are as easy to absolve as asking forgiveness...
 

martnargh

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I get the need to feel like evil is properly punished. I do. It appeals to our sense of justice.

But if Christians are correct, any of those evils you mentioned are as easy to absolve as asking forgiveness...
God is merciful, he understands we make mistakes. Its one thing to simply say it though, you have to mean it and thats a personal interraction with god everyone has and no one can interfere with.
So just saying "im sorry, i feel bad about that, im a born again christian" might be enough in a parole hearing, you cant fool god and he will know if your heart is truly sorry and if you repent your wrongdoing. Whats wrong with forgiveness? Seems a lot of non believers take every negative aspect of catholicism and just run with that.....

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Azriel Mysterious

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This life is all that we have. Make the most of it and do not belittle it with a promise of reward after you die.
Life is it's own purpose.
This!
This one life is the only one we KNOW we will have. Could there be something after death? Sure, but with no concrete evidence, it is not certain.

I feel like everything we experience, good and bad, is precious because it is so fleeting. A human lifetime goes by in a blink of an eye. It should be cherished.

To me saying this is just a means to an end (heaven) is rather sad. Life is precious and to say that our spin on this rock is only a waiting game for the afterlife cheapens the human experience.

"Yesterday is History; Tomorrow a Mystery; Today is a Gift, that's why it's called The Present."

This is my opinion, and I'm not trying to sound callous. If belief in the afterlife gives you comfort, great, but just think about what I said. You should appreciate the life you have, as it is the only one you are CERTAIN to have. You could be right and there could be a heaven, but that doesn't make this life less precious. Don't waste your time focusing on what comes after, enjoy what is now.
 

pulsevape

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This life is all that we have. Make the most of it and do not belittle it with a promise of reward after you die.
Life is it's own purpose.
what afterlife....alot of people of faith including some Christians recognize reincarnation heaven and hell is not an over riding issue with them...their spiritual path is not born out of fear or reward.it is a born out of a wish to raise their conciousness to have union with God...
Many people see themselves primarily as spiritual beings in a physical body, and so their concerns and passions revolve around their spiitual realization...they are concerned with today not the afterlife.
 
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f1r3b1rd

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Minor correction (It was closer to 3 centuries...Yes you read that right Three Hundred Years After)
There was one or two collections written by an actual apostle and witness of Jesus. Luke, Acts or the epistles, I cant remember, I haven't taken any of the courses in this in 15years, But, I know it is generally accepted that 1 or all of those three, were authored by actual followers of jesus.
additionally, There is proof of written record by the romans, that Jesus, the man, did in fact live.
 

raymo2u

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There was one or two collections written by an actual apostle and witness of Jesus. Luke, Acts or the epistles, I cant remember, I haven't taken any of the courses in this in 15years, But, I know it is generally accepted that 1 or all of those three, were authored by actual followers of jesus.
additionally, There is proof of written record by the romans, that Jesus, the man, did in fact live.
And he was a smart man using his stories to his advantage
 

Time

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If there is no god than life serves no purpose.
What is life then? Procreation? Longevity of mankind? We are doing a pretty good job of destroying the planet so by that mindset we are doomed. Then what? Reincarnation? Lights out?
Im actually curious to know what the non believers believe we are here for and where we are going.

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Why do I have to have a belief about why I am here? The better question is why do you feel that there has to be a reason to be here and an answer for where you are going?

I don't know why you think life has to have a purpose. I don't have an answer for it because I've never dwelt on the fact that I am here or that I have some undefined purpose. Those are your concerns. I don't see how inventing an afterlife that you have no idea if it really exists changes anything except to sooth your own fears. I don't need an afterlife.
 

martnargh

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And he was a smart man using his stories to his advantage
No one has an advantage over another in the laws of god, everyone is the same and we are all to follow. A preacher isnt more important than you or me, to god, nor is the pope. If anything god loves his lost children more, or rather gives them more attentiom, this is why Jesus' homeboys were all the undesireables. The poorest, the prostitutes, the scum of ciilization, thats who Jesus broke bread with.

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pulsevape

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Why do I have to have a belief about why I am here? The better question is why do you feel that there has to be a reason to be here and an answer for where you are going?

I don't know why you think life has to have a purpose. I don't have an answer for it because I've never dwelt on the fact that I am here or that I have some undefined purpose. Those are your concerns. I don't see how inventing an afterlife that you have no idea if it really exists changes anything except to sooth your own fears. I don't need an afterlife.
what I see is when people use that term why am I here...they are asking ...what are the things and puruits I should be investing my time and energy in that make me feel more alive and more in joy......and add to my fullfillment....as a being.
 

raymo2u

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can you imagine any other reason that may have motivated him or is that the only possibility that exists in your reality.
I for one do not believe in anything bigger then myself. I belelve in proof...there isnt any proof of anything bigger then ourselves and "what proof" there is about anything religious has 1000's of conflicting reasons of why the proof isnt really proof at all. If there was some sort ofr higher power there should be some proof with all the time we've been around, more then just stories.

The Bible is a book of brainwash that can control large amounts of people easily. They are stories that are vague enough to be used for any situation and can relate to anyone and those looking that a desperate can find something in it to have "faith" in. Im not one to care who believes in what but I shy away from "beliefs" just like I shy away from listening to people on acid babbling about what they are seeing this moment.

Anyone who wants people needs a following and what better way then a book that a higher power envisioned that can tie to anyone? Smart people made the book and religions to control large amounts of "not so smart people", you actually believe in the written Word of God by mans hands? You trust so blindly into another man that you would follow him because "he has talked to god and wrote this book?"

Homer also wrote stories about gods and the funny part is they were never shoved onto anyone as more then stories...Great storytellers had power in the ages where people had nothing to live for and times were hard.
 

raymo2u

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No one has an advantage over another in the laws of god, everyone is the same and we are all to follow. A preacher isnt more important than you or me, to god, nor is the pope. If anything god loves his lost children more, or rather gives them more attentiom, this is why Jesus' homeboys were all the undesireables. The poorest, the prostitutes, the scum of ciilization, thats who Jesus broke bread with.

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But is that why the people that use the book are usually well funded? I dont see the pope or any church in shambles...
 

raymo2u

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There is no historical evidence for Jesus outside of the bible.

https://thechurchoftruth.org/no-evidence-for-jesus-outside-bible/
Your wrong! Jesus lives outside the Bible...on toast
tumblr_inline_n56sagEB4Y1r41umo.jpg
 

pulsevape

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I for one do not believe in anything bigger then myself. I belelve in proof...there isnt any proof of anything bigger then ourselves and "what proof" there is about anything religious has 1000's of conflicting reasons of why the proof isnt really proof at all. If there was some sort ofr higher power there should be some proof with all the time we've been around, more then just stories.

The Bible is a book of brainwash that can control large amounts of people easily. They are stories that are vague enough to be used for any situation and can relate to anyone and those looking that a desperate can find something in it to have "faith" in. Im not one to care who believes in what but I shy away from "beliefs" just like I shy away from listening to people on acid babbling about what they are seeing this moment.

Anyone who wants people needs a following and what better way then a book that a higher power envisioned that can tie to anyone? Smart people made the book and religions to control large amounts of "not so smart people", you actually believe in the written Word of God by mans hands? You trust so blindly into another man that you would follow him because "he has talked to god and wrote this book?"

Homer also wrote stories about gods and the funny part is they were never shoved onto anyone as more then stories...Great storytellers had power in the ages where people had nothing to live for and times were hard.
so let me understand you.....everyone that doesn't share your view is...brainwashed...is that the only possibility you can imagine.
 

raymo2u

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so let me understand you.....everyone that doesn't share your view is...brainwashed...is that the only possibility you can imagine.
You dont need to share my views....but yes I myself would believe you follow a false cause.
 

pulsevape

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But is that why the people that use the book are usually well funded? I dont see the pope or any church in shambles...
Christ did not chase the buck nor did
Buddha
St, Fancis
Thomas Merton
Mother Teresa
Dali Lama
ect.
 

raymo2u

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Christ did not chase the buck nor did
Buddha
St, Fancis
Thomas Merton
Mother Teresa
Dali Lama
ect.
No but the people preaching their cause do. If I developed a God in my own mind would you follow?
 

f1r3b1rd

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pulsevape

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No but the people preaching their cause do. If I developed a God in my own mind would you follow?
St.Francis started his ministry a long time before he was made a monk...the catholic church came to him...he didn't go to the catholic church.
"As you go preach the kingdom of heaven is at hand"...for me that is not a directive for you to force your opinion on people...that is merely a directive for you to not be silinced about who and what you are...if you experince yourself as a spiritual being and you experince your life as a spiritual joureny you don't censor your self in order to make aethists more comfortable you freely tell people about the things that happen to you the things you are working on and about the things that are real and fundemental to you...just as I listen to people tell me about their fvorite football team or their job.their kids their garden...ect.
 
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martnargh

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But is that why the people that use the book are usually well funded? I dont see the pope or any church in shambles...
The priests around here live in a room on the side of the church, as do most catholic preachers. The pope is a different story, he is the front man... even then you dont see him in dubai big pimpin on golden dubs with jets and fancy boats... i rather respect him as he is a minimalist who had the golden throne removed and replaced it with a wooden chair.
So i really dont see the big catholic hot shots you are talking about... evangelists are another thing, theyre seperatists.

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Azriel Mysterious

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well I reckon we can both find stuff on the internet on both sides of that argument... another reason this debate is ridiculous at its heart. No one is going to change positions.
http://beginningandend.com/jesus-exist-historical-evidence-jesus-christ/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Census_of_Quirinius
The Flavius Josephus writing on Jesus has been thoroughly debunked by biblical scholars. Reputable scholars don't even reference it anymore. It was a forgery.

http://ffrf.org/outreach/item/18412-debunking-the-historical-jesus
 

f1r3b1rd

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The Flavius Josephus has been thoroughly debunked by biblical scholars. Reputable scholars don't even reference it anymore. It was a forgery.

http://ffrf.org/outreach/item/18412-debunking-the-historical-jesus
two sides to everything
http://www.centuryone.com/josephus.html

there are also several other materials supporting that the man did in fact live.
http://beginningandend.com/jesus-exist-historical-evidence-jesus-christ/

I'm not claiming his life as proof of god, just that he is in fact a historical figure. take it as you will, but the man did live, and the man was a positive influence
 
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pulsevape

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two sides to everything
http://www.centuryone.com/josephus.html

there are also several other materials supporting that the man did in fact live.
http://beginningandend.com/jesus-exist-historical-evidence-jesus-christ/

I'm claiming his life is proof of god, just that he is in fact a historical figure. take it as you will, but the man did live, and the man was a positive influence
what's the point....do you think it matters to these people...do you think they would walk into a Kiva on the santa domingo pueblo and tell the shamans their beliefs are nonsense of course they wouldn't...do you think they have every asked is it true the Buddha could walk when he came out of his mothers womb and that lotus flowers grew where his feet touched the ground..of course not...
 

Surf Monkey

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No one said you had to go. But, after 8 days of only posting on one thread, and tarring something for the sake of controversy.--

This is why I say the two boards are the same. You're trying to make me the instigator. But that's not true. Your people called me out. They're still doing it.

seriously, youre not banned and welcomed back. there is much more to this place than being controversial for the sake of fanning flames.

Is there? Because you keep accusing me of what your members did, so...
 

The Cromwell

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There was one or two collections written by an actual apostle and witness of Jesus. Luke, Acts or the epistles, I cant remember, I haven't taken any of the courses in this in 15years, But, I know it is generally accepted that 1 or all of those three, were authored by actual followers of jesus.
additionally, There is proof of written record by the romans, that Jesus, the man, did in fact live.
The fact that a man named Jesus did exist proves nothing about God.
 

Surf Monkey

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what's the point....do you think it matters to these people...do you think they would walk into a Kiva on the santa domingo pueblo and tell the shamans their beliefs are nonsense of course they wouldn't...do you think they have every asked is it true the Buddha could walk when he came out of his mothers womb and that lotus flowers grew where his feet touched the ground..of course not...

You're doing it too.

No one came in here to take you guys on unilaterally. YOU GUYS called me out. So your self satisfied smear is total bullshit.
 

Pipug

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you have a singularly banal mind.it is why most people are ignoring you.

The exact same thing could be said of you, Sir. Instead of rebutting her, you bash her. How god-like of you. You must be proud.

There is no hiding the fact that MT had some shady dealings with criminals and their money. There is also the aspect of questionable treatment given to many poor folks by her. And her practice of trying to indoctrinate these people into HER faith.The Catholic church as created a myth and people bought it. That's a shame because there are many, many good people who HAVE served the poor faithfully and never receive credit for it. Of course, they weren't LOOKING for credit. They were doing what they thought was morally right and within their abilities.
 

Surf Monkey

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The fact that a man named Jesus did exist proves nothing about God.

Indeed. Lacking even a single first hand
If god showed himself to us or made his existance obvious then there would be no need for faith. Its like an open book test, too easy and unlikely.
God made us free to choose to follow or not to follow. I can talk all day about this but if no one listens i cant necessarily force it nor can i judge anyone for not following since god himself chose to give us free will. In the words of Jesus, those who have ears will listen...
I am catholic of the roman nature and i can tell you not all of us forcefeed nor do (or should) we judge in gods name, its not in our place to do so.
Everything you experience in life from the good to the bad can be explained through the bible. Some say its faery tales, but unexplained science is also faery tales if you think about it, only we give it a fancy name, being theoretical.
Some find it hard to believe a big man created all of this in 7 days, the world and time itself, but find it rational that a one in a billion chance explosion happened at just the right place in just the right time to create single celled organisms which over billions of years of aquatic life to reptilians to mammalians somehow it got to us, makes a whole lot of sense.

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The Big Bang wasn't a "random explosion." It was an inflation of a singularity.
 

pulsevape

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OH look we have Pipug, and butt monkey suddenly showing up to the aid of Azriel ...I just love how you ECF trolls travel in packs like hyenas and cowards...
 

martnargh

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Indeed. Lacking even a single first hand


The Big Bang wasn't a "random explosion." It was an inflation of a singularity.
Yes, because that can be proven...
Theoretical sciences are just that, random speculations.

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pulsevape

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You're doing it too.

No one came in here to take you guys on unilaterally. YOU GUYS called me out. So your self satisfied smear is total bullshit.
I'm sure it somehow it all comes back to you, but for the life of me I don't know how.
 

Surf Monkey

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OH look we have Pipug, and butt monkey suddenly showing up to the aid of Azriel ...I just love how you ECF trolls travel in packs like hyenas and cowards...

"Butt monkey."

Still obsessing over anal sex? What's the story there? Because it obviously has nothing to do with me.

And I didn't come to the aid of anyone. Find something legitimate to attack, because your irrational hate filled behavior so far really casts you in a poor light IMO.
 

Surf Monkey

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Yes, because that can be proven...
Theoretical sciences are just that, random speculations.

1) Still not a "random explosion."

2) You need to go look up the SCIENTIFIC definition of the word "theory" because you're applying the colloquial definition. HUGE difference.
 

Pipug

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OH look we have Pipug, and butt monkey suddenly showing up to the aid of Azriel ...I just love how you ECF trolls travel in packs like hyenas and cowards...

I've been here all along. Just haven't seen the need to speak in this thread until your post. I don't even know Surf Monkey OR Azriel. And I am not an ECF troll. I have hardly ever posted there. Not that that's any of your business. Just trying to point out that you are talking of things you know nothing of, Dear Sir.

And while I am here, I will say this. I am an atheist, but I respect people of TRUE faith, that is to say, those that believe in goodness, kindness, love of fellow man, giving, moral people. I don't happen to believe the myth of MT. She has been debunked. Full stop. Not saying she hasn't done good deeds, but she has a bucket load of misdeeds under her habit. Now, that is NOT dissing ANYONE'S faith. Merely pointing out a few facts about a religious person that I find to be "not so god-like" as some who see her.
 

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