UncleRJ
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FDA REGULATIONS: DON'T PANIC!
- Thread starter VaporJoe
- Start date
Reply I got
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Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and concerns regarding H.R. 2058, The FDA Deeming Authority Clarification Act of 2015. As your representative, I give full consideration to the concerns of the Oklahomans I am honored to serve in Congress.
U.S. Rep. Tom Cole (R-OK) introduced H.R. 2058, the FDA Deeming Authority Clarification Act of 2015 on April 28, 2015. This bill would limit the FDA's ability to apply February 15, 2007, as the effective date for enacting e-cigarette regulations. H.R. 2058 also specifies that the effective date for these regulations should be a date based on the finalization of the regulation. H.R. 2058 has been referred to the House Committee on Energy and Commerce.
I firmly believe that overregulation does more harm than good, and that the federal government has a tendency to insert itself in situations where it does not belong. As a father of five children, I support the prevention of sales of these products to minors, but I believe that the state is better equipped than the federal government to address these kinds of requirements. The unintended consequences of rules like this can be damaging to small businesses, which are the true engine of our economy. As an Energy and Commerce member, please rest assured, I will be sure to keep your thoughts in mind should H.R. 2058 be considered by the full committee. Please feel free to contact me in the future with additional information on e-cigarettes, or any issue that is important to you.
I encourage you to sign up for my weekly emails at mullin.house.gov to receive updates on federal issues that impact Oklahomans.
Again, thank you for taking the time to write. It’s an incredible honor and privilege to serve the communities and families I grew up and worked with my entire life. God bless!
Sincerely,

Markwayne Mullin
Member of Congress
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--------------------
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and concerns regarding H.R. 2058, The FDA Deeming Authority Clarification Act of 2015. As your representative, I give full consideration to the concerns of the Oklahomans I am honored to serve in Congress.
U.S. Rep. Tom Cole (R-OK) introduced H.R. 2058, the FDA Deeming Authority Clarification Act of 2015 on April 28, 2015. This bill would limit the FDA's ability to apply February 15, 2007, as the effective date for enacting e-cigarette regulations. H.R. 2058 also specifies that the effective date for these regulations should be a date based on the finalization of the regulation. H.R. 2058 has been referred to the House Committee on Energy and Commerce.
I firmly believe that overregulation does more harm than good, and that the federal government has a tendency to insert itself in situations where it does not belong. As a father of five children, I support the prevention of sales of these products to minors, but I believe that the state is better equipped than the federal government to address these kinds of requirements. The unintended consequences of rules like this can be damaging to small businesses, which are the true engine of our economy. As an Energy and Commerce member, please rest assured, I will be sure to keep your thoughts in mind should H.R. 2058 be considered by the full committee. Please feel free to contact me in the future with additional information on e-cigarettes, or any issue that is important to you.
I encourage you to sign up for my weekly emails at mullin.house.gov to receive updates on federal issues that impact Oklahomans.
Again, thank you for taking the time to write. It’s an incredible honor and privilege to serve the communities and families I grew up and worked with my entire life. God bless!
Sincerely,

Markwayne Mullin
Member of Congress
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DoctorJ
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The FDA addresses the black market issue in the regs, I know it doesn't address your issue though:
"(Response) FDA understands these concerns, but believes that this rule will not increase current illicit practices or create new illicit markets, because FDA is not banning any tobacco product with this deeming rule. FDA believes that this rule will not stifle innovation but could, instead, encourage it. The greater regulatory certainty created by the premarket review process may encourage companies to invest in creating potentially beneficial novel products, with greater confidence that improved products will not be competing against equally novel, but more dangerous, products. For example, a company may be more willing to invest the additional resources needed to ensure that its product is designed and manufactured with appropriate methods and controls."
I just like that they mention that they believe that these regs "will not stifle innovation but could, instead, encourage it." Sounds encouraging to me that they would add such a concession to the regs.
How can they afford to? They'll be spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to get their current products approved. Most places, can't even afford to do that alone. Sending us back to what was available in 2007 is the polar opposite of innovation. Thousands of businesses will be closing up shop, their employees left without jobs, healthcare, etc... Current smokers will have nothing more than cigalikes to try and stop smoking. When they get disappointed with how ineffective those can be for many people, what will they do? They won't have better equipment available to them anymore.
Based on the info I've read in the regs, this is not good news for us, or the ones who want to quit smoking.
It may be so. I, for one, am not encouraged, but it is entirely possible I am wrong.
And we are supposed to believe that bull shit vs what the regs say and the history of how many apps the FDA has approved in the last few years?
1 approved, hundreds pending for years and now after 1 year pending you have to pull your product from the market.
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Pretty much the same types of responses I've gotten on other forums. I don't expect anyone to believe the "bull shit", however, it's kind of hard to ignore when it's in black and white. I'm not trying to convince anyone the regs are a good thing, but hey, it's the government, did you expect anything less?
I'm just tryin' to spread a little sunshine on a cloudy day, not pump sunshine up your azz!
"...if you live feeling like your glass is half empty, well,It may as well be empty all the way."
Author: Mattie J.T. Stepanek
JuicyLucy
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Pretty much the same types of responses I've gotten on other forums. I don't expect anyone to believe the "bull shit", however, it's kind of hard to ignore when it's in black and white. I'm not trying to convince anyone the regs are a good thing, but hey, it's the government, did you expect anything less?
I'm just tryin' to spread a little sunshine on a cloudy day, not pump sunshine up your azz!
"...if you live feeling like your glass is half empty, well,It may as well be empty all the way."
Author: Mattie J.T. Stepanek
After reading the FDAs guidelines for vendor compliance I am convinced its a doomsday scenario - flat out
f1r3b1rd
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ummm regulations maybe ... but this is not regulation.Pretty much the same types of responses I've gotten on other forums. I don't expect anyone to believe the "bull shit", however, it's kind of hard to ignore when it's in black and white. I'm not trying to convince anyone the regs are a good thing, but hey, it's the government, did you expect anything less?
I'm just tryin' to spread a little sunshine on a cloudy day, not pump sunshine up your azz!
"...if you live feeling like your glass is half empty, well,It may as well be empty all the way."
Author: Mattie J.T. Stepanek
this is a lot of strategery to make vaping to expensive for a company that makes the gear we use to financially burdensome to continue
The Democrats are handing vaping over to BT, plain and simple. Vaping as we know it will be gone. You will be forced to vape the way BT wants you to.
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Not taking up for the Demoncrats but they control neither house of congress.
They controlled the House for the 2009 Family Tobacco Act which this is all predicated on. The Democrats have overwhelming support for the FDA Regs. Very few Republicans are behind this. Go to Grimm Greens website. He lists them all. It's a fact that most Vapers just don't want to admit. The Democrats are not your friends on this issue at all.
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No one in government is my friend.
And it is up to those currently in control in congress on the bill and amendment currently in congress as to whether they pass or not.
We can play the blame game that those in power want us to play or we can move forward.
First step is to quit reelecting the lifers in congress.
Just a way to avoid putting the the blame squarely where it belongs which is with the Dems. People will do anything to hold on to their political beliefs even if it means sacrificing their own personal freedom.
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This. But most won't get it.
Voting record for 2009 Tobacco control act.
Senate:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...te_cfm.cfm?&congress=111&session=1&vote=00207
House:
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll187.xml
Senate:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...te_cfm.cfm?&congress=111&session=1&vote=00207
House:
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll187.xml
No, I won't.
BT will never get another dime out of me. Goobermint will never get another penny in tobacco sin taxes. And I will vape the way I want, for the rest of my life. Screw both of them.
Same here. I gots all I need.No, I won't.
BT will never get another dime out of me. Goobermint will never get another penny in tobacco sin taxes. And I will vape the way I want, for the rest of my life. Screw both of them.
I am sure I can get more stuff If I ever need it.
But batteries, PG/VG and flavorings are all I might need for the rest of my life.
So some vote one way but do not have the balls to come out and say they are against vaping?
As I said the R's control both houses of congress so both the pending bill and the amendment concerning vaping will pass for sure
Yeah right.
Me I follow only my own nose. I follow no group be it political or religious.
Have you even looked at the stats you posted? Anyone can see that the anti vaping vote is clearly and overwhelmingly Democratic. In the Senate 16 out of the 79 Yeas were Republican. That means 63 Dems voted for it. In the House 228 of the 298 Yeas were Democrats. Again overwhelming Democratic support.
Yep I saw that Makes no nevermind to me since I follow neither party. I go where I want and follow none.
Also some did not have the balls to vote on this bill.
Seeing that a bill you oppose is going to pass but abstaining to vote is a no balls decision.
Last edited:
Ohh and btw my voter registration says No Party Affiliation.
Well that might work for you but I'm of the opinion that the more informed vapers are the more of a chance they have to keep their rights.
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Informed? I read that entire damned Deeming regs thing.
Written all my senators and reps. BTW my 2 republican senators are in the pocket of BT.
Belong to CASA, etc.
done numerous surveys and petitions.
But in the end I see the writing on the wall and have prepped for the rest of my life on vaping stuff.
Faith does not trump reality.
I do hope for the benefit of others that I am wrong on our govt and vaping and will gladly admit to being wrong if proven to be so.
Written all my senators and reps. BTW my 2 republican senators are in the pocket of BT.
Belong to CASA, etc.
done numerous surveys and petitions.
But in the end I see the writing on the wall and have prepped for the rest of my life on vaping stuff.
Faith does not trump reality.
I do hope for the benefit of others that I am wrong on our govt and vaping and will gladly admit to being wrong if proven to be so.
Bro, nobody said you weren't informed so take it easy. What I was trying to convey was that we all need to keep vapers informed as to where these politicians loyalties are. Never meant to insinuate that you were uninformed.
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I'm all good with the sunshine. But ask me, the fix is in.Pretty much the same types of responses I've gotten on other forums. I don't expect anyone to believe the "bull shit", however, it's kind of hard to ignore when it's in black and white. I'm not trying to convince anyone the regs are a good thing, but hey, it's the government, did you expect anything less?
I'm just tryin' to spread a little sunshine on a cloudy day, not pump sunshine up your azz!
"...if you live feeling like your glass is half empty, well,It may as well be empty all the way."
Author: Mattie J.T. Stepanek
Yes I admit I'm a broken record, but only thing we can do is contact our Representatives and Congressman regularly (at least twice a month). Put them on notice that if they support the FDA regulations or do nothing about them we will actively work to replace them.
I Vape, I Vote
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Doesn't matter. the extremely cumbersome and costly approval process for each ejuice mix will ensure that in 2 years very few flavors are sold.
Tough crowd here. I don't know why I even bother posting anything. Ignore my links since it's unworthy. I won't bother posting in this thread.
Just a realist dealing the the facts as they currently are.
Politicians often throw fake bones to the masses.
Look what I am doing for you... Nothing.
Politicians often throw fake bones to the masses.
Look what I am doing for you... Nothing.
For all you non believers.
http://observer.com/2016/06/hot-air...-and-big-pharma-to-choke-the-vaping-industry/
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http://observer.com/2016/06/hot-air...-and-big-pharma-to-choke-the-vaping-industry/
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Only ones available will be pre 2007, you know the ones Big Tobacco markets.
The shear cost of a juice line will be millions for just one flavor at different nic level just for the application which very easily can be either rejected or the FDA not bother to even look at. No company will invest in that amount of capital and even if they do, say goodbye to affordable juice.
Yep, the FDA just insured Tobacco a long a prosperous future.
f1r3b1rd
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I don't think there is a final verdict just yet. - if there is I would not believe it unless I saw it on a legal doc
The cannot sell anything in the store that is not properly labelled and in child proof container if ejuice. And they will require photo ID proof of age to sell any vape stuff.
They can replenish their stock as long as it was not modified after 8-10-2016. ie a new flavor of juice or a new version of a tank or mod.
Yeah I'm posting the Royal Collage of Physicians piece on Senator Patty Murry's FB page where she announced she's running for re-election (I fully expect it to be deleted). I stated that my vote depends directly on who supports the FDA. She's on the oversight committee for the FDA. I write her regularly and always get the standard canned response. Everyone needs to hammer these politicians on a regular basis, let them know their opinion/vote on the FDA ban will directly affect your vote. Also site the actual science supporting Vaping.
Those goof-balls don't read the emails or letters, their gophers respond, with canned messages, sometimes not even the right canned message. McCain sent me a canned message a couple weeks ago, telling me to write to the FDA before July 2nd 2015...or some date, forget now, but the wrong year. Some idiot sent the wrong canned message. Worthless bastards....!
True, but if they get a lot they will let them know, a few here and there they will blow off. But not if there are a significant amount from different sources.
It's all a numbers game, if we as a community do this on a regular basis we will get noticed. But if only a few of us are active we're ignored as an acceptable loss and not threat to their seat of power.
Why not? It's kind of fun!
I just got into the vaping thing about a month ago and went straight to DIY juices because:
A) It's cheap
B) It's easy
C) Why rely on someone else? If you want an exact flavor, figure it out and make it yourself! I mean if I wanted to make a mint-chocolate-cookie juice, I'd find a good mint flavor, a chocolate extract and something like cake or cookie flavor and then start experimenting.
My first concoction was lemon-mint with off the shelf flavors from the grocery store and it's actually really good!
I figured out pretty quick why there are so many vape juice producers: It's easy to get into. The expensive part is the flavoring, but a little can go a long way. Two 32oz bottles of VG/PG will make almost two LITERS of juice for about $30 for a 6mg 50/50 mix. (you have to do the math to get the right dosage etc.)
I bought some great juices before I started making my own, and yes there is a lot of appeal with off the shelf flavors, but at the end of the day $15 for a 2oz bottle adds up quick.
Also, if you make your own, you control everything about the ingredients and the quality. It's nice to have a "clean room" for manufacturing, but seriously, I mix my own sitting at my desk.
Just my opinion of course! =)
i dont know about you guys but as for me,
i'm just gonna ignore this whole FDA attempt to serve their lobbyist funders...aka Big Tobacco and Big Pharma.
Vegetable Glycerin is FDA approved.
Propylene Glycol is FDA approved.
Flavor concentrates FDA approved.
Liquid nicotine FDA approved.
therefore, this isnt an issue.
i dont wanna here any nonsense from the FDA that combining said ingredients needs FDA approval.
i dont think i need FDA approval every time i cook dinner, bake a cake, or make hard candy.
i'm mixing ingredients to make e juice.
i'm not mixing ingredients to make nitroglycerin like if my name was Alfred Nobel.
i'm a cook not a chemist.
my lab is my kitchen.
i'm trying to make something delicious in my kitchen, not something explosive like dynamite in a chemist's lab.
i dont need the government's approval to make a delicious liquid.
What the FDA is attempting, isnt gonna work. No one and i mean no one is gonna buy big tobacco/pharma made ejuice.
no one.
What they are trying, by eliminating big tobacco/pharma competition which are the e juice makers out there now...isnt gonna work.
and no matter what they say, the government assuming they can control vaping by regulation is a dream. A fantasy.
their mistake is that they assume what worked with cigarette smokers will work here with us.
For example, when the Altria tobacco company lobbied the FDA to ban flavored cigarettes to essentially eliminate their competition which were the foreign tobacco companies...it worked. Why? because the product(tobacco) is a distinct product that cant really be homemade...unless you have a good number of farm acres at your property lol.
this, unfortunately for the crooks in government, is soooooooooooooooooo very homemade friendly.
therefore we win, they lose.
we have 100% of the control.
they have none.
they have no one to blame but themselves. Since the mid 90s the government has been abusing and violating the consumer rights of smokers. All in the name of greed and none in the name of our health.
Their excuse for their high cig taxes was that it was to teach smokers a lesson and that it was for our own good.
that was their excuse but we know better.
it was simply to take advantage.
i remember when on Senator tried to pass a bill to outlaw tobacco altogether in his state.
And who made damn sure that bill was shot down and never turned to law?
if you guessed the anti-tobacco organizations.....you guessed right.
All these anti-tobacco orgs get their funding from cig tax revenue.
of course those folks working at these anti-tobacco/stop smoking orgs killed the bill.
point is....they used and abused and took advantage of smokers, people with an addiction, a vice....and continued taking advantage until they finally pushed smokers to the edge where they stopped smoking and found a new, tastier, healthier vice....and now the government has shot itself in the foot.
they just lost a ton of $ in taxes from the ex smokers either quitting entirely or switching to vaping. that is what the government gets for getting too greedy. they have no one to blame but themselves.
its all a bad joke. as for me.
i'm gonna sit back, relax, and laugh as i watch these regulation attempts blow up in the FDA's face.
oh yeah, anybody working for the FDA, in case you are reading this...
here's a little message from us vapers to you.
i'm just gonna ignore this whole FDA attempt to serve their lobbyist funders...aka Big Tobacco and Big Pharma.
Vegetable Glycerin is FDA approved.
Propylene Glycol is FDA approved.
Flavor concentrates FDA approved.
Liquid nicotine FDA approved.
therefore, this isnt an issue.
i dont wanna here any nonsense from the FDA that combining said ingredients needs FDA approval.
i dont think i need FDA approval every time i cook dinner, bake a cake, or make hard candy.
i'm mixing ingredients to make e juice.
i'm not mixing ingredients to make nitroglycerin like if my name was Alfred Nobel.
i'm a cook not a chemist.
my lab is my kitchen.
i'm trying to make something delicious in my kitchen, not something explosive like dynamite in a chemist's lab.
i dont need the government's approval to make a delicious liquid.
What the FDA is attempting, isnt gonna work. No one and i mean no one is gonna buy big tobacco/pharma made ejuice.
no one.
What they are trying, by eliminating big tobacco/pharma competition which are the e juice makers out there now...isnt gonna work.
and no matter what they say, the government assuming they can control vaping by regulation is a dream. A fantasy.
their mistake is that they assume what worked with cigarette smokers will work here with us.
For example, when the Altria tobacco company lobbied the FDA to ban flavored cigarettes to essentially eliminate their competition which were the foreign tobacco companies...it worked. Why? because the product(tobacco) is a distinct product that cant really be homemade...unless you have a good number of farm acres at your property lol.
this, unfortunately for the crooks in government, is soooooooooooooooooo very homemade friendly.
therefore we win, they lose.
we have 100% of the control.
they have none.
they have no one to blame but themselves. Since the mid 90s the government has been abusing and violating the consumer rights of smokers. All in the name of greed and none in the name of our health.
Their excuse for their high cig taxes was that it was to teach smokers a lesson and that it was for our own good.
that was their excuse but we know better.
it was simply to take advantage.
i remember when on Senator tried to pass a bill to outlaw tobacco altogether in his state.
And who made damn sure that bill was shot down and never turned to law?
if you guessed the anti-tobacco organizations.....you guessed right.
All these anti-tobacco orgs get their funding from cig tax revenue.
of course those folks working at these anti-tobacco/stop smoking orgs killed the bill.
point is....they used and abused and took advantage of smokers, people with an addiction, a vice....and continued taking advantage until they finally pushed smokers to the edge where they stopped smoking and found a new, tastier, healthier vice....and now the government has shot itself in the foot.
they just lost a ton of $ in taxes from the ex smokers either quitting entirely or switching to vaping. that is what the government gets for getting too greedy. they have no one to blame but themselves.
its all a bad joke. as for me.
i'm gonna sit back, relax, and laugh as i watch these regulation attempts blow up in the FDA's face.
oh yeah, anybody working for the FDA, in case you are reading this...
here's a little message from us vapers to you.
Well more news for those who believe they have another two years to stock up. Just got from Reddit that Pennsylvania just passed an immediate 40% wholesale tax on anything vape related. If that wasn't bad enough they also included an additional 40% floor tax which pretty much kills all the B&M's in that state.
Hey, it's for the children!
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Hey, it's for the children!
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JuicyLucy
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People who live in states with vape-related taxes should be aware: If the deeming regs stand as published, states will be able to collect the state vape tax from out-of-state online purchases under the federal Jenkins Act - which is how they are able to collect local taxes on out-of-state online purchases of actual tobacco.
damn! Sounds like they're getting really desperate to save the tobacco sales. Next will be a lowering of taxes on cigarettes.
Thank goodness I live in a fairly vape-friendly state that has made a legal distinction between the two. It's a travesty (and a crime against society) that the FDA and so many state governments are so eager to keep people smoking. First the FDA tried to blockade all imports of vaping items. When that failed, they decided to try this current bullshit.
Oh yeah just a little note PA has a Democrat as Governor.
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