Alright. I will need to further explore. See the basic premise of it though.
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FDA REGULATIONS: DON'T PANIC!
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Alright. I will need to further explore. See the basic premise of it though.
So I read around the forum yesterday, looked at different reports/articles, and watched the local and national NBC news. After that I had had enough.
In every news cast that I watched, here was the Narrative:
"The FDA has moved foreword with plans to regulate electronic cigarette usage, and ban sales to people under the age of 18." (cut to some for the childrens talking person, and interview of dumb fucking kid that blew his hand off recently without a word from his dumb fucking PARENTS!)
Then straight to:
"Electronic cigarette advocates say that this move will kill the industry putting people out of work"
NOTHING in between! The narrative the general public is seeing is that the vaping industry is upset that they will lose money because they can't sell to people under the age of 18! Nothing about the cost to the average shop owner, modder, or anyone else falling under the umbrella that has "ENDS" that were created after 2007. Nothing about the worries that with this regulation the only ones that will be able to continue in the industry will be big tobacco, and they will start doing what they do to make sure people STAY hooked on their products (start adding harmful chemical bullshit,) or kill it off all together leaving NO vaping industry at all.
The vaping industry has a PR problem. Advocates may be putting the word out there, but it's not being portrayed on a national basis as it should. The spin doctors are at work, and it needs to be unwound.
The community that stands now can get all black market, fuck the police, I do what I want about it and we will be fine. I have no doubt that I will be able to continue exactly the way I want to through DIY and other channels. But that's a big fuck you to any future converts. I had a hard time wrapping my head around all of this stuff when I started years ago, and if I had to DIY and skirt the law to do it it never would have happened.
Regulation is coming. Period. What needs to happen is to not fight it, but rather embrace it. Not as it is written, but how it SHOULD be written. I haven't met a single person that has fought for underage sales, and yet that's the narrative. I see lots of articles and news reports about people blowing stuff up because they are dumb, but none about why it happened, how it can be productively prevented in the future.
Things SHOULD be regulated. No sales to anyone under the age of 18, batteries sold need to be regulated to stop the re-wrapped bullshit coming through, food grade health standards need to be in place for mixing e-liquids, and hate me if you want to but EVERY mod should have some sort of safety protection and limitations installed. I have not and will not use an unregulated device. I don't trust myself, and I don't trust the batteries. A tube of metal with threads and springs can be made cheaply and easily...let that be done behind the scenes and let's put up a picture of safety mindedness for the public.
Let's get some leaders in the press and spin OUR agenda. Let's embrace the regulations, put on the good face that we know the industry has, and SHOW the public. Let's make the public argument FOR regulation OUR way and prove how our way is helpful as opposed to current legislation that is detrimental.
That's all I've got. I am not a PR or political expert, but those are thoughts and they came from me. I have no idea how any of this can be done. Sorry for the long posts lately. Happy Friday.
In every news cast that I watched, here was the Narrative:
"The FDA has moved foreword with plans to regulate electronic cigarette usage, and ban sales to people under the age of 18." (cut to some for the childrens talking person, and interview of dumb fucking kid that blew his hand off recently without a word from his dumb fucking PARENTS!)
Then straight to:
"Electronic cigarette advocates say that this move will kill the industry putting people out of work"
NOTHING in between! The narrative the general public is seeing is that the vaping industry is upset that they will lose money because they can't sell to people under the age of 18! Nothing about the cost to the average shop owner, modder, or anyone else falling under the umbrella that has "ENDS" that were created after 2007. Nothing about the worries that with this regulation the only ones that will be able to continue in the industry will be big tobacco, and they will start doing what they do to make sure people STAY hooked on their products (start adding harmful chemical bullshit,) or kill it off all together leaving NO vaping industry at all.
The vaping industry has a PR problem. Advocates may be putting the word out there, but it's not being portrayed on a national basis as it should. The spin doctors are at work, and it needs to be unwound.
The community that stands now can get all black market, fuck the police, I do what I want about it and we will be fine. I have no doubt that I will be able to continue exactly the way I want to through DIY and other channels. But that's a big fuck you to any future converts. I had a hard time wrapping my head around all of this stuff when I started years ago, and if I had to DIY and skirt the law to do it it never would have happened.
Regulation is coming. Period. What needs to happen is to not fight it, but rather embrace it. Not as it is written, but how it SHOULD be written. I haven't met a single person that has fought for underage sales, and yet that's the narrative. I see lots of articles and news reports about people blowing stuff up because they are dumb, but none about why it happened, how it can be productively prevented in the future.
Things SHOULD be regulated. No sales to anyone under the age of 18, batteries sold need to be regulated to stop the re-wrapped bullshit coming through, food grade health standards need to be in place for mixing e-liquids, and hate me if you want to but EVERY mod should have some sort of safety protection and limitations installed. I have not and will not use an unregulated device. I don't trust myself, and I don't trust the batteries. A tube of metal with threads and springs can be made cheaply and easily...let that be done behind the scenes and let's put up a picture of safety mindedness for the public.
Let's get some leaders in the press and spin OUR agenda. Let's embrace the regulations, put on the good face that we know the industry has, and SHOW the public. Let's make the public argument FOR regulation OUR way and prove how our way is helpful as opposed to current legislation that is detrimental.
That's all I've got. I am not a PR or political expert, but those are thoughts and they came from me. I have no idea how any of this can be done. Sorry for the long posts lately. Happy Friday.
f1r3b1rd
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there is certainly something to that. I was saying it months before, the Gubbamint is going to have there way with a fractured, fighting mass of people that cant even go through one conversation without casting insults and a barrage of clashing ego's.
The tobacco and pharmacology lobby is what has been the drivers of the anti vaping train. OK, perhaps we need a vaping Lobby, that will push our ideals and help change public perception, or at the very minimum challenge the anti vaping stories.
I absolutely hate that you are correct. Collective voices that fight each aren't going to be heard. Some people are going to be upset no matter what. I am now and I'm sure I will be in one way or another regardless of the outcome. $$ is the only thing that talks, and it's really sad.
Hadn't seen this until this morning. This is what we need, plus ideas to go with it. The sledge hammer vs scalpel comment is good sound bite, but what is the alternative to the current regs? That needs to be put out there as well. Greg didn't have a lot of time for explanations, only bullet points but hopefully in the near future there will be more interviews with more time.
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We have 2 years which is lots of time to fight in court and look for loop holes. There are already a few loop holes people have found.
Just label and sell it for what it actually is, food flavoring, fuckem!
* Sees informative video link, goes to informative video link, downloads and saves informative video for reference. *
Let such a lobby be of no political designation too. It is simply to promote vaping and challenge the anti-vaping element, it is not a political party. Elect us a council of elders every three months, people who volunteer to be in a pool of 'elders' selected to do the aforementioned. That way no one burns out from being in the vanguard, no one can cry that there is favoritism, or some party or other in control. It is not political, just an effort by volunteers. Oh wait, CASAA ... ?
And no, not meaning that as a slur at CASAA. I'm sure they do work tirelessly, thanklessly. It was more of an observation of "oh, duh dummy *pointing at self as dummy*".
wtf..
Please Joe...during that 2 years what will and will not be available to us and will it be highly taxed.
not sure ,but that seems like what is called tobacco absolute...need to know more bout this method...does it have a name. this process.
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I don't know, I was shown by some local folks how to do it, that's the extent of my knowledge on it,
both of them are highly flammable in there gas stage when trying to evaporate them off.
It does its the same process as breaking down c*caine alkaloids from the coca leaf and then cleaning pond water for drinking...
What I dont get is how they evaporate the water of sufficinetly I'm guessing a lot of the water is still in the extract. Oh well I know a chemist I can ask.I'm sure we can crack this nut.
It's been a long time since I've had a chemistry class, so I could be mistaken on this, but from my understanding, nicotine is an alkaloid and thus you'd use an acid/base extraction to pull it from the plant. An acid/base extraction uses hydrochloric acid, lye, a non-polar solvent such as toluene, and a sep funnel. The problem (in addition to the safety aspect - hcl can blind you and the fumes burn throat and lungs) is that those same items are used by m*th labs, so buying them can result in a search warrant being issued for your place.
Im sure if the tempo is high enough and you have the right pressurte valve on it it could be more productive, or you could run a few more evap chambers
not to mention residues from the solvents.
that too.
regardless an investment in time and money to do it efficently....I've done alot of diffrent tobacco extraction methods. always stopped shy of tobacco absolute, becuase of the investment and also they flavor was reputed to not be all that spectacular.
not to highkack the thread the last thing I will ask is the biggest bugaboo about all the exrtraction methods I tried, was that the had enough organic matter left in the extract that they fouled coils up pretty quick regardless of filtering methods.
Have you ever used a Syringe filter? Includes both a graduated glass fiber prefilter (10.0 to 0.7µm) to remove larger particles and a 0.45µm PVDF membrane filter for fine filtration
no usually lab filter papers an let gravilty do the work always thought the pressure from syringes would force organic matter through.....but since you are after nicotine and not flavorings you could filter down to .5 microns or less...I usually filtered down to 2.5 microns.
If your worried about that you could always run in through a couple of them to help ensure that the only things allowed through would be what you want.
kinda like asking Hilary to go through the same secuirty clearance I have to go through......
Vapers March on Washington DC
If vaping is a apart of your life you need to be here and Fight for your Right to Vape! So that includes you the Everyday Vapers, Shop Owners, Product Manufactures, Wholesalers, Advocacy Groups and more. Vaping has changed even saved so many of us. Now is the time to make a real difference, lets show them how strong the vaping community really is. This effects us all we are contacting everyone Casaa will have speakers at the march and we have contacted SFATA, Not Blowing Smoke and the list goes on. If anyone person, group or company would like to help and be apart all is welcome please contact us at [email protected]
We will have buses leaving all major cities on the east coast more information on other cities will be posted at a later time. We will also post the date once it is finalized.
Please share this post. Event page will be posted soon.
Stephen Mad on FB posted this.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/NotRecommendedVendorsAndProducts/
I'm hoping you guys will go. I'll see how my health is after my liver biopsy. My doctors keep telling me I'm sick.
If vaping is a apart of your life you need to be here and Fight for your Right to Vape! So that includes you the Everyday Vapers, Shop Owners, Product Manufactures, Wholesalers, Advocacy Groups and more. Vaping has changed even saved so many of us. Now is the time to make a real difference, lets show them how strong the vaping community really is. This effects us all we are contacting everyone Casaa will have speakers at the march and we have contacted SFATA, Not Blowing Smoke and the list goes on. If anyone person, group or company would like to help and be apart all is welcome please contact us at [email protected]
We will have buses leaving all major cities on the east coast more information on other cities will be posted at a later time. We will also post the date once it is finalized.
Please share this post. Event page will be posted soon.
Stephen Mad on FB posted this.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/NotRecommendedVendorsAndProducts/
I'm hoping you guys will go. I'll see how my health is after my liver biopsy. My doctors keep telling me I'm sick.
what should happen rarely does when your uber rich.........I think we should focus on the corruption between the politicians , and the corporations as a motive for their regulations and most importantly letting th public know how much safer vaping is over smoking...how it is being accepted in England all the science behing it a s a harm reduction..
Hope you get well soon Artemis.Vapers March on Washington DC
If vaping is a apart of your life you need to be here and Fight for your Right to Vape! So that includes you the Everyday Vapers, Shop Owners, Product Manufactures, Wholesalers, Advocacy Groups and more. Vaping has changed even saved so many of us. Now is the time to make a real difference, lets show them how strong the vaping community really is. This effects us all we are contacting everyone Casaa will have speakers at the march and we have contacted SFATA, Not Blowing Smoke and the list goes on. If anyone person, group or company would like to help and be apart all is welcome please contact us at [email protected]
We will have buses leaving all major cities on the east coast more information on other cities will be posted at a later time. We will also post the date once it is finalized.
Please share this post. Event page will be posted soon.
Stephen Mad on FB posted this.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/NotRecommendedVendorsAndProducts/
I'm hoping you guys will go. I'll see how my health is after my liver biopsy. My doctors keep telling me I'm sick.
Well, considering BIG tobacco is just that, BIG. They can easily afford to comply and to some degree actually do. What they cannot afford to comply to, they can pay lawyers to find loopholes or means to work around the regulation, or just buy politicians. It is the same with BIG pharmaceuticals, BIG finance, BIG defense contractors, BIG power producers, BIG corporates, BIG oil, BIG genetically modified foods, BIG entertainment, BIG media. Although BIG media is the propaganda machine for all the rest and BIG government.
lordmage
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unfortunately we have no control politicians lie they do what they want and unfortunately we have no controls the most we can do is vote them out but the next person's going to lie anyway the little guy gets screwed the big guy wins.
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LOveWerks
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Yes, the tobacco industry has been permitted to sell their wares as they have been for decades now. My wife and I stick with Max VG, or 100% VG in the 'vaping realm.' Yes, there are problems with coil heads and coils getting the 'gunk.'
Especially with the real-deal organic flavorings. It looks like 'ejuicemeup' and I are going to become stalwart match-ups in the pursuit of 'vape life.'
LW & Liz
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Especially with the real-deal organic flavorings. It looks like 'ejuicemeup' and I are going to become stalwart match-ups in the pursuit of 'vape life.'
LW & Liz
CASAA Supporters
Legislative NAGS
And that is exactly why I say the whole damn system is broken, corrupted, useless. Our voting does not matter one whit. We get a nice puppet theater where it is implied we get a choice when we ultimately do not.
When I first saw those links, I had to re-read it. First time around I read, "fist the FDA"
Hadn't even thought about the sampler bar thing. Ugh! How's a person supposed to know what they like/want? *sigh* I guess a place could charge a tiny fee to sample, that way it wouldn't be "free" but. . .
They covered everything they could think of.
"...for purposes of this final rule, FDA is using the terms "component" and "part" interchangeably and without emphasizing the distinction between the terms. FDA may clarify the distinctions between ‘component’ and ‘part’ in the future.
"Specifically, "Component or Part" means "any software or assembly of materials intended or reasonably expected: 1) to alter or affect the tobacco product’s performance, composition, constituents or characteristics; or 2) to be used with or for the human consumption of a tobacco product."
"The following is a nonexhaustive list of examples of components and parts used with electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS) (including e- cigarettes): e-liquids; atomizers; batteries (with or without variable voltage); cartomizers (atomizer plus replaceable fluid-filled cartridge); digital display/lights to adjust settings; clearomisers, tank systems, flavors, vials that contain e-liquids, and programmable software."
https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2016-10685.pdf
"...for purposes of this final rule, FDA is using the terms "component" and "part" interchangeably and without emphasizing the distinction between the terms. FDA may clarify the distinctions between ‘component’ and ‘part’ in the future.
"Specifically, "Component or Part" means "any software or assembly of materials intended or reasonably expected: 1) to alter or affect the tobacco product’s performance, composition, constituents or characteristics; or 2) to be used with or for the human consumption of a tobacco product."
"The following is a nonexhaustive list of examples of components and parts used with electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS) (including e- cigarettes): e-liquids; atomizers; batteries (with or without variable voltage); cartomizers (atomizer plus replaceable fluid-filled cartridge); digital display/lights to adjust settings; clearomisers, tank systems, flavors, vials that contain e-liquids, and programmable software."
https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2016-10685.pdf
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Something I would love to see, john oliver doing a segment on vaping like the one they did on tobacco
This is about the only sensible read I've found on the interweb since the FDA decided to fuck people over.
The FDA Just Gave Big Tobacco a Big Win on Vaping
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/fda-just-gave-big-tobacco-041500434.html
The FDA Just Gave Big Tobacco a Big Win on Vaping
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/fda-just-gave-big-tobacco-041500434.html
I cannot fathom the level of motherfucking stupidity on this shit.
Not only does it fuck over vaping as a whole it steps so fucking far out of the purview of the FDA.
Regulations of electronics?
Crushing invention.
Ya'all know who else were rabid facists?
FUCKING NAZIS.
Not only does it fuck over vaping as a whole it steps so fucking far out of the purview of the FDA.
Regulations of electronics?
Crushing invention.
Ya'all know who else were rabid facists?
FUCKING NAZIS.
Thank you for contacting me to express your support for the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Deeming Authority Clarification Act of 2015 (H.R. 2058). While we may disagree on the policy merits of this legislation, I appreciate the opportunity to share my perspective.
Congress passed the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act in 2009 to address tobacco's impact on public health, with a special emphasis on protecting children. The act requires that any tobacco product that was introduced, or modified, after February 15, 2007, must be reviewed by the FDA before it can be sold. Tobacco products that predate February 15, 2007 would be exempt from this process and "grandfathered" in.
The FDA Deeming Authority Clarification Act of 2015 would change the grandfather date from February of 2007 to the date that the FDA's final deeming regulation is published, which is expected to be released sometime later this year. Moving the grandfather date would exempt all tobacco products currently on the market from review by the FDA, including the vast majority of e-cigarette products.
I have heard from many Oregonians who rely on e-cigarettes as a smoke-free alternative to traditional tobacco, and are worried that FDA review means these products will immediately be pulled from the market. However, these products will remain available to consumers throughout the FDA's review process. While I understand concerns about access, I am deeply troubled by the skyrocketing rates of e-cigarette usage by teens and think that it is critical that the FDA have the authority to limit sales and marketing targeted to children, so I do not support exempting e-cigarettes from FDA review.
Again, I appreciate you sharing your views and giving me the opportunity to respond. I hope you continue to send your thoughts and observations my way.
All my best,
Jeffrey A. Merkley
United States Senator
Go fuck yourself you pasty doughy looking retard.
Seriously Jeff you are a god damned retarded puppet mastered Nazi, I do not know what is scarier.... your stupidity or the lock step ass kissing paid out agendas you push.
Congress passed the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act in 2009 to address tobacco's impact on public health, with a special emphasis on protecting children. The act requires that any tobacco product that was introduced, or modified, after February 15, 2007, must be reviewed by the FDA before it can be sold. Tobacco products that predate February 15, 2007 would be exempt from this process and "grandfathered" in.
The FDA Deeming Authority Clarification Act of 2015 would change the grandfather date from February of 2007 to the date that the FDA's final deeming regulation is published, which is expected to be released sometime later this year. Moving the grandfather date would exempt all tobacco products currently on the market from review by the FDA, including the vast majority of e-cigarette products.
I have heard from many Oregonians who rely on e-cigarettes as a smoke-free alternative to traditional tobacco, and are worried that FDA review means these products will immediately be pulled from the market. However, these products will remain available to consumers throughout the FDA's review process. While I understand concerns about access, I am deeply troubled by the skyrocketing rates of e-cigarette usage by teens and think that it is critical that the FDA have the authority to limit sales and marketing targeted to children, so I do not support exempting e-cigarettes from FDA review.
Again, I appreciate you sharing your views and giving me the opportunity to respond. I hope you continue to send your thoughts and observations my way.
All my best,
Jeffrey A. Merkley
United States Senator
Go fuck yourself you pasty doughy looking retard.
Seriously Jeff you are a god damned retarded puppet mastered Nazi, I do not know what is scarier.... your stupidity or the lock step ass kissing paid out agendas you push.
I would've figured with ALL the active members, and religious vape followers on social media that this petition for an official response from capital hill would be good to go overnight, Rip has more than half a million subs. People saying oh we can't do much about it. Trust me when I tell you that's exactly what Big gov' Big tobacco wants. People like that. So much wrong with the Federal Overreach that 1776 needs to happen all over again (Sorry just one pissed off Army vet) but seriously there should be NO reason as to why this petition for response has not been signed off on yet, if you haven't DO IT.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...ing-ecigarette-classification-tobacco-product
Needs 50,576 signatures by June 4, 2016 to get a response from the White House
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...ing-ecigarette-classification-tobacco-product
Needs 50,576 signatures by June 4, 2016 to get a response from the White House
Let's see, cigarette use by teens is down and ecig use by teens supposedly up. Hmm.. You don't suppose it's a case of those that would smoke cigarettes switching to vaping? I know I'd much rather see a teen (or anyone else, for that matter) vaping than see them smoking. Fucking dumbass tobacco stooge.