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FDA REGULATIONS: DON'T PANIC!

f1r3b1rd

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LOL. That from a guy that sells pure nic.

There is a certain beauty to scientific fact.
you can do whatever you want you know the risk. This information is for those that do not. Nothing wrong with disclosing facts so people can take steps for safety and make informed decisions.
our battle is with the fda, not anyone else.
 

Time

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our battle is with the fda, not anyone else.

Our battle is with misinformation. When non vapers and vapers hear over exaggerated claims about how dangerous stuff supposedly is, it really doesn't help us.

Kevein is no fucking scientist. He is just a dude that makes a living mixing nic. It's just plain good business if people are afraid to mix their own.
 

Time

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Catalyst

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I see a few things.
One - Juice companies can still sell 0 nic juice.
Two - Mods now become flashlight tubes. It will increase the cost, but there are a lot of 510 connector flashlight heads out in the world. Add one to a mod and it is now a flashlight. So you will have to buy the flashlight head along with the mod.
Three - They won't be able to do anything about the batteries, because they existed before 2007.
Four - Since it has been shown that you can use liquid **** and **** in atomizers, you still have an avenue for purchasing atomizers. Just the advertising and product description needs to be changed.
Five - Is an atomizer, an atomizer if it has no wire or cotton in it?
Six - Nicotine liquid is has a lot of other uses besides vaping. Liquid nicotine was around before 2007. I don't see why it would not still be available to purchase.



Greg W.

This...
 

The Cromwell

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From the live blog at vaping.com, page 222 of the regulations states...

"Nicotine-free e-liquid that is intended or reasonably expected to be used with or for the human consumption of tobacco products in most cases would be a component or part of a tobacco product and, therefore, within the scope of this rule. These products will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. (p222)"

Since I don't speak legalese, I'm not exactly sure what this means but I don't like the sound of it..

I think they define all vaping devices as a tobacco product. So if you vape the liquid it falls under the regulation?
would ask Perry Mason but he died.
 

SteveS45

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Email from CASAA this morning urging calling the FDA. I did!

KZhxYO5vw8QP2_SFfIankerCPVZOlDQm91mbUZACsWuELHFquF2awk-605wuqWcnkRHJoaXbWMURoYosT3fN3_58O7NlEGKIS-1Xs-ERLRR6EAMTiOIC6gi9Uc1WVAhtDALwigR9
 

Pipug

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CASAA posted this on FB.

Today, CASAA, SFATA, AEMSA, AVA and NBS have formally announced their coalition to pursue legal and legislative strategies now that the FDA’s final deeming regulations have been released.

The coalition will continue working to determine the correct litigation strategy and legislative actions. We will be informing the vapor industry and community of next steps, deadlines, PR objectives, and grassroots efforts. Organizations interested in participating should contact coalition partners.

Please feel free to contact any of the organizations listed above for more details in the coming days.
 

SteveS45

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I did not really ask any other questions then how can they call my vaping products that have NO Nicotine a Tobacco product! The operator wanted to try and tell me they are doing it for us and my conversation (rant) is supposedly being forwarded to the superiors.
 

Vapomizer

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Good job keeping the servers out of the reach of the corrupt and irrational regulations, so we can gather here to find ways to keep vaping and keep away from the cancer sticks and hopefully live longer and happier ... :yes: :thanks:
 

Pipug

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There doesn't appear to be much cohesion here. The subject is talked about all over the forum, but only 4 pages in the actual thread about the regulations. People need to pull together in one thread, so they can learn all they can about what is going on. JMHO...:)
 

nightshard

It's VG/PG not PG/VG
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Good thing a vaping related forum isn't considered a tobacco product, not yet anyway.
Otherwise we would have to pay 1M$ per post.
 

Artemis

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I did not really ask any other questions then how can they call my vaping products that have NO Nicotine a Tobacco product! The operator wanted to try and tell me they are doing it for us and my conversation (rant) is supposedly being forwarded to the superiors.
Good to know. I just read Halo's lawsuit against the FDA. My findings: very impressive. They have the balls to fight.
 

AndriaD

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Well, I was hoping to see this thread at minimum stay unifying,
Guess that was wishful thinking,

Not everyone knows what you are talking about, some of us have backgrounds in electronics and are engineers, Not all. those of us vaping now and hobbyists are fine. we will be ok. but the future vapor, future ex-snooker, needs our help. we need to fight for them, for their families. So that they can have more time with their children. this tootlepuffer vs cloudchaser shit is part of the reason we are in the spot today. If we don't stick together and learn to help those fighting for us, there will be no future vapors.

I agree, and also for those vapers who don't have the time or inclination to make vaping into a hobby, who just want to buy vape gear when they need it -- probably a much larger group of vapers than those of us who DIY our juice and coils.

I did see that the Appropriations committee passed that bill to change the grandfather date, so now hopefully the whole House will do the same. Fingers crossed everyone, and call/write your congress critters!

Andria
 

Time

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I did see that the Appropriations committee passed that bill to change the grandfather date, so now hopefully the whole House will do the same. Fingers crossed everyone, and call/write your congress critters!

It has zero chance, unless Trump becomes President. Obama and/or Hillary will veto it.

Not trying to be a downer, just laying it out as it is.
 

AndriaD

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It has zero chance, unless Trump becomes President. Obama and/or Hillary will veto it.

Not trying to be a downer, just laying it out as it is.

Then it goes back to Congress, who can override a veto -- remember, Congress are the folks who control the purse strings. Money being the most important thing to all those idiots in DC, that seems an immense power to me. Remember what happened when they wouldn't pass a budget? The whole gov't shut down. They could do that again if they wanted to.

Andria
 

Time

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Then it goes back to Congress, who can override a veto -- remember, Congress are the folks who control the purse strings. Money being the most important thing to all those idiots in DC, that seems an immense power to me. Remember what happened when they wouldn't pass a budget? The whole gov't shut down. They could do that again if they wanted to.

Andria

They would dem votes to override a veto. Not gonna happen. Obamacare would be gone if it were that easy.
 

AndriaD

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They would dem votes to override a veto. Not gonna happen. Obamacare would be gone if it were that easy.

I don't think that fight is over yet either. GA sure ain't buying it. But that's irrelevant and OT here, so, in the immortal words of Emily Litella: "Nevermind." :D

Andria
 

Time

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I don't think that fight is over yet either. GA sure ain't buying it. But that's irrelevant and OT here, so, in the immortal words of Emily Litella: "Nevermind." :D

Andria

I disagree. It's neither irrelevant nor OT. Vapers need to understand who created this problem. The same democratic controlled House and Senate, and President passed the tobacco act that gave the FDA the power, also passed Obamacare.

How people vote will matter. It's what got us in this mess with the regs.
 

Jimi D

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We're fucked like I said back in 2010. The Vaping Industry partied over this ruling. All they were thinking about was a few more years of making money.

Federal regulation[edit]
The FDA classified electronic cigarettes as drug delivery devices and subject to regulation under the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FDCA) before importation and sale in the United States. The classification was challenged in court, and overruled in January 2010 by Federal District Court Judge Richard J. Leon, citing that "the devices should be regulated as tobacco products rather than drug or medical products."[1][2]

In March 2010, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia stayed the injunction pending an appeal, during which the FDA argued the right to regulate electronic cigarettes based on their previous ability to regulate nicotine replacement therapies such asnicotine gum or patches. Further, the agency argued that tobacco legislation enacted the previous year "expressly excludes from the definition of 'tobacco product' any article that is a drug, device or combination product under the FDCA, and provides that such articles shall be subject to regulation under the pre-existing FDCA provisions."[3] On 7 December 2010, the appeals court ruled against the FDA in a 3–0 unanimous decision, ruling the FDA can only regulate electronic cigarettes as tobacco products, and thus cannot block their import.[4] The judges ruled that such devices would only be subject to drug legislation if they are marketed for therapeutic use – E-cigarette manufacturers had successfully proven that their products were targeted at smokers and not at those seeking to quit. The District Columbia Circuit appeals court, on 24 January 2011, declined to review the decision en banc, blocking the products from FDA regulation as medical devices.
 

Wingsfan0310

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We're fucked like I said back in 2010. The Vaping Industry partied over this ruling. All they were thinking about was a few more years of making money.

Federal regulation[edit]
The FDA classified electronic cigarettes as drug delivery devices and subject to regulation under the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FDCA) before importation and sale in the United States. The classification was challenged in court, and overruled in January 2010 by Federal District Court Judge Richard J. Leon, citing that "the devices should be regulated as tobacco products rather than drug or medical products."[1][2]

In March 2010, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia stayed the injunction pending an appeal, during which the FDA argued the right to regulate electronic cigarettes based on their previous ability to regulate nicotine replacement therapies such asnicotine gum or patches. Further, the agency argued that tobacco legislation enacted the previous year "expressly excludes from the definition of 'tobacco product' any article that is a drug, device or combination product under the FDCA, and provides that such articles shall be subject to regulation under the pre-existing FDCA provisions."[3] On 7 December 2010, the appeals court ruled against the FDA in a 3–0 unanimous decision, ruling the FDA can only regulate electronic cigarettes as tobacco products, and thus cannot block their import.[4] The judges ruled that such devices would only be subject to drug legislation if they are marketed for therapeutic use – E-cigarette manufacturers had successfully proven that their products were targeted at smokers and not at those seeking to quit. The District Columbia Circuit appeals court, on 24 January 2011, declined to review the decision en banc, blocking the products from FDA regulation as medical devices.
Come on Jimi, let me be happy for at least an hour :D:giggle:

Cheers,
Steve
 

Artemis

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We're fucked like I said back in 2010. The Vaping Industry partied over this ruling. All they were thinking about was a few more years of making money.

Federal regulation[edit]
The FDA classified electronic cigarettes as drug delivery devices and subject to regulation under the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FDCA) before importation and sale in the United States. The classification was challenged in court, and overruled in January 2010 by Federal District Court Judge Richard J. Leon, citing that "the devices should be regulated as tobacco products rather than drug or medical products."[1][2]

In March 2010, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia stayed the injunction pending an appeal, during which the FDA argued the right to regulate electronic cigarettes based on their previous ability to regulate nicotine replacement therapies such asnicotine gum or patches. Further, the agency argued that tobacco legislation enacted the previous year "expressly excludes from the definition of 'tobacco product' any article that is a drug, device or combination product under the FDCA, and provides that such articles shall be subject to regulation under the pre-existing FDCA provisions."[3] On 7 December 2010, the appeals court ruled against the FDA in a 3–0 unanimous decision, ruling the FDA can only regulate electronic cigarettes as tobacco products, and thus cannot block their import.[4] The judges ruled that such devices would only be subject to drug legislation if they are marketed for therapeutic use – E-cigarette manufacturers had successfully proven that their products were targeted at smokers and not at those seeking to quit. The District Columbia Circuit appeals court, on 24 January 2011, declined to review the decision en banc, blocking the products from FDA regulation as medical devices.
I totally agree with you Jimi!. They could have formed a coalition back in 2010. I remember the 2010 discussions elsewhere. I'm lacking empathy right now.
 

SteveS45

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I wonder when these things will come into play like:

New York Court Rules Vaping Is Not the Same as Smoking
 

Droogbc

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Congress in 2012 passed the Food and Drug Administration Safety and Innovation Act which grants the FDA considerable flexibility to accelerate approval for life-threatening disease drugs dealing with an unmet medical need. The FDA can sign off on a drug that “has an effect on a surrogate endpoint that is reasonably likely to predict clinical benefit."

Vaping is innovative. There is no doubt.

There is absolutely a need to help people break the bond of tobacco addiction. Despite the availability of nicotine gum, lozenges, inhalers, and mind altering pills, year after year countless smokers attempt to quit smoking and ultimately fail. Countless people have suffered illness and death because they were unable to break free of their tobacco addiction, and the current FDA approved methods have failed to produce results for those poor souls. There is a need, and it remains unmet.

Finally there is an abundance of evidence that suggests that vaping is many magnitudes less harmful than tobacco, and we the vaping public are living proof that vaping is absolutely the most effective method of quitting smoking.

What I'm getting at here is perhaps we can somehow legally force the FDA's hand, demanding that they exercise some of that considerable flexibility by immediately approving a method of harm reduction proven by us to have "an effect on a surrogate endpoint that is reasonably likely to predict clinical benefit", ie. Vaping.
 

Ms. Trixy

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Thanks SO much for the nic warning! I ain't going there...too scary!!! The mixologists who are stocking up will be paid big bucks to do their magic for sure.
 

Ms. Trixy

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Thank you for the link. Extremely helpful...and scary! A Must Read for everyone! I also found a thread on the ecigarette forum about freezing your nic for long term shelf life...6+ years! https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/long-term-nic-storage.740445/

Get the highest nic possible right now in your favorite juices, in mass quantities and freeze them. VG won't freeze. See my earlier post with the link to long term storage. (6+ years!)

LET'S KEEP FIGHTING!!!
 
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AmandaD

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Ms. Trixy

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Has anyone posted a list of websites to go to to fight the new legislation?
 

inspects

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inspects

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Thank you for the link. Extremely helpful...and scary! A Must Read for everyone! I also found a thread on the ecigarette forum about freezing your nic for long term shelf life...6+ years! https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/long-term-nic-storage.740445/

Get the highest nic possible right now in your favorite juices, in mass quantities and freeze them. VG won't freeze. See my earlier post with the link to long term storage. (6+ years!)

LET'S KEEP FIGHTING!!!
https://www.nudenicotine.com/product/nude-armor-v2-nicotine-base-extended-shelf-life/...bought two more liters.
 

AndriaD

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Thank you for the link. Extremely helpful...and scary! A Must Read for everyone! I also found a thread on the ecigarette forum about freezing your nic for long term shelf life...6+ years! https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/long-term-nic-storage.740445/

Get the highest nic possible right now in your favorite juices, in mass quantities and freeze them. VG won't freeze. See my earlier post with the link to long term storage. (6+ years!)

LET'S KEEP FIGHTING!!!

Pg doesn't freeze either; that's why it's now found in antifreeze! But already-mixed ejuice is not good to freeze; it just won't last. Best thing is just to freeze the 100mg nic, and only take out what you need for mixing -- I've got 2L in the freezer, but I keep a 30ml bottle of 100mg nic in my fridge.

Andria
 

The Ocelot

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Has anyone posted a list of websites to go to to fight the new legislation?

Petition Your Legislator NOW to Support HR 2058! CASAA has a prewritten message, but it can be edited to say whatever you like.

It only takes a minute and will send emails to both your senators (based on your zip code) and the President!!

Petition Your Legislator NOW to Support HR 2058!
 

AndriaD

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Jimi D

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Kevein is no fucking scientist. He is just a dude that makes a living mixing nic. It's just plain good business if people are afraid to mix their own.[/QUOTE]The funny thing is, he told me that he's had a couple of drops spill on him.Lol
 

aspire.vape

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Thank God you got ready for this. As for the rest. Well I came into the vaping world in 2009. Back then we lived with the threat of shipments being ceased before or after they enter the States. We might have to go back to those times or something close to it. No matter the vaping world still grew. Don't forget that. Don't give up. Giving up is how they really win!!! Joe thanks for the home. New and old need it.

Amen! Never give up. The UK is headed in a more realistic direction. Regulate it if you like, tax it if you like, but there should not be and mafia-like million dollar collection tactics.
 

Ms. Trixy

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Pg doesn't freeze either; that's why it's now found in antifreeze! But already-mixed ejuice is not good to freeze; it just won't last. Best thing is just to freeze the 100mg nic, and only take out what you need for mixing -- I've got 2L in the freezer, but I keep a 30ml bottle of 100mg nic in my fridge.

Andria

You apparently know how to handle straight nic. What advice to you have for someone that handles high nic juice just fine, but would like to freeze nic for the future? Is there a difference between handling frozen or frig'ed nic? I'd really like to learn so I can stock up. I'm doing that now with my juices...ordering 24 nic then a bottle of 3-6 nic to mix with - mass quantities actually.
 

Ms. Trixy

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Thank you for the link. Extremely helpful...and scary! A Must Read for everyone! I also found a thread on the ecigarette forum about freezing your nic for long term shelf life...6+ years! https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/long-term-nic-storage.740445/

Get the highest nic possible right now in your favorite juices, in mass quantities and freeze them. VG won't freeze. See my earlier post with the link to long term storage. (6+ years!)

LET'S KEEP FIGHTING!!!

Update: I'm going to his my favorite vape/mix shop and have them do as high a nic as they will go with some of the juices I use to mix with. Like strawberry, yogurt, vanilla bean, ice (no flavor), cream, etc.
 

Wingsfan0310

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You apparently know how to handle straight nic. What advice to you have for someone that handles high nic juice just fine, but would like to freeze nic for the future? Is there a difference between handling frozen or frig'ed nic? I'd really like to learn so I can stock up. I'm doing that now with my juices...ordering 24 nic then a bottle of 3-6 nic to mix with - mass quantities actually.
Straight/Pure Nic (997mg/ml) is something that's best dealt with in a Lab environment imo. Most of us buy 100mg/ml Nic. We break it down into smaller bottles and store it in the freezer. I myself use 60ml Amber Glass bottles with Polycone caps. I keep one out to work with and take one out as it's depleted. I put my bottles in a 3lb, empty, washed Margarine Container. I figure just in case the worst was to happen and one breaks (I've never had it happen) it will be contained and not get all over everything in my freezer. It also keeps them organized. I can get about 500ml in each container.

IMG_20150808_091813_zpsuhfwuqfw.jpg


Don't forget to label the container.
IMG_20150808_091625_zpsuw6yj4rc.jpg


Cheers,
Steve.
 

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